The Harley manual states you can snick into top 6th gear at only 90 kph so presumably ride at 100 kph on long tours. For reasons about to be explained, I phoned Harley Canada (in Brampton I believe, customer service/care) who was prompt at responding, and her top technician in the office confirmed you cannot damage your crank or top end by doing that. My mechanic who just replaced my crankshaft and top end begs to differ. This bike had 14,000 km on it (2008 EG Classic) when I took it on a 19,000 km first ride. It was flawless other than a bit of detonation in Yellowstone and occasionally elsewhere, and oil consumption was maybe 1.5 L per oil change. Smooth, comfortable, I loved it and bragged about it. Long story short, the next spring my engine exploded out of the blue. A piston was broken, scratched and blew cylinder into a slight elliptical shape. I replaced that and then mechanic had to re-do it because he heard metallic ticking sound from metal still in that he hadn`t flushed out. He said now it`s a BIG job, entailing disassembling entire engine. When doing that he found crank`s conn rod`s big ends were blue so replaced crank, as well the primary drive case was cracked requiring welding, and a bearing in that area needed replacement. Entire job cost a whopping $6000 including say 32 hours labour (top end with cam change from SE Stage II kit was done twice remember) including new oil cooler, new V&H fuel pack, new $320 rear tire and $150 battery and that includes tax and new CVO mufflers. The only saving grace is his $50/hr rate or it`d be even more, though I think he made up for it with $900 crank and $320 rear tire as he`s not a Harley dealer so can`t get Harley dealer parts prices which doesn`t get passed on to me. There was no Harley dealer at the time in this town. He says I did this to the bike by riding it in 6th at 100 and all Harley owners know this or should know this. Problem is I`ve never owned one before, the previous owner never told me, and nobody else did either even when I asked dealer service departments at a couple locations along the way. And now Harley themselves in Canada and another Harley dealer service manager says that`s bs, 6th is MEANT for 100 kph for better fuel mileage, vs 120-130 plus that this guy says it`s for. He says 2200 rpm is too low and you need 2500-2600 rpm or you`ll see damage to primary case and crank (and pistons I presume). I don`t want my new 103 ci SE Stage II engine with new crank and all this money pumped into it in upgrades to blow up after my NEXT trip from riding it wrong, yet I also don`t want to be listening to a possible kook who is wrong. I heard he was an awesome mechanic and very very picky which is why I went to him. He had the bike an entire year for complex reasons out of his control too. He`s not just the mechanic but the owner of the custom bike shop and claims he did the fix himself.....almost like it was his pet project to get to the bottom of the mystery. He says it`s very rare for damage like this to occur so soon. I`ve read all over the net problems with Harley twin cam engines, and never sure what to believe, but maybe they`re all true and I`m only seeing the first in a long string of headaches with my Harley. So can anyone shed any light on this? Has anyone seen blue conn rod ends before and can it be attributed to 2200 rpm cruising in 6th at 100 kph? If so, why won`t Harley admit it? Why won`t the Harley service manager (who was very patient and helpful) admit it? Maybe because there`s nothing to admit? I`m about to go on my second big trip and would feel better knowing just what happened to my engine, and if I should run in 5th from now on and reserve 6th for freeways running over 120 kph. I`m so paranoid now I`ll probably run it in 5th like he says no matter what anyone says, just in case he`s right since he is the one who saw the damage first hand and had a year to come up with the reason after talking to many people. But my talk with Harley Canada`s top technician (in the office that day) and dealer service manager has me wondering.

Thanks in advance.

 

now that's a dissertation!

100 kph = 60 mph right?

my 2 cents - I shift up or down as required and do not pay attention to the tach or speedometer...if i feel in need torque to climb a hill or pass, i down shift if i have to...otherwise, i just keep on...too much scenery to enjoy than worry about shift points...of course, that's just me...

 

Keep it at 3k. That's the sweet spot. Less than 2.5k is lugging in my book.

 

I believe the transmission gearing in US touring models changed in 2009 and from what I understand from my pre 09 touring bike (mostly Streetglides) owner friends, this change made 6th gear more usable at a lower speed. Those same pre 09 touring owner friends also said that about the only time they would normally use 6th gear, would be Interstate riding - 70 mph or higher. These are their words not mine. And yes, my 09 accept 55-60mph in 6th very smoothly and I'm coming up on 30k miles.

When you talked to H-D-Canada did you mention your bike was an 08?

09 gearing and on

1st 9.312
2nd 6.650
3rd 4.938
4th 4.000
5th 3.407
6th 2.875


Pre 09

1st 9.593
2nd 6.421
3rd 4.774
4th 3.926
5th 3.279
6th 2.790

 

I`d like to add a few things that may help:

a) I ran premium all the time while in the US but it detonated here and there regardless. I`d try to back off when I heard it, when I finally realized what it was (it`s subtle, like crinkling tin foil, and faint). My first assumption when I heard my piston was broken was that it was damaging detonation. And I`m still pretty sure that`s what it was, I think it was over by the exhaust side. Oh and it was the FRONT cylinder/piston not the rear. Because of what a dealer told me about premium gas containing more ethanol or something, I was using regular with Harley octane booster while in Canada. He said regular uses less or nor ethanol and to avoid water absorption issues with premium, I should just boost octane in regular. I`d blame this except my issues with detonation happened in the US where I was using premium all the time. Back in Canada I went to regular with boost again and no detonation problems.

b) I had good oil pressure and along the 19,000 km trip I did my oil changes each 8000 km or whatever is specified, with mineral Harley oil at dealerships. I mention oil pressure because dealer service manager said low oil pressure would cause blue conn rod ends.....lugging motor at 2200 rpm in 6th at 100 kph sure wouldn`t. He couldn`t however answer what ELSE could have caused it, OR what cause my primary case to break and that bearing in the primary drive to fail.

c) I don`t drive it hard but was the third owner. Ironically the mechanic and custom bike shop owner was the original owner. The guy I bought it off of didn`t strike me as a yahoo or abuser of his stuff. He too was an owner of a construction company, and sold it because he simply didn`t have time to ride it (hence 14,000 km total on the bike which I eclipsed within 4 weeks of owning it vs their combined 2 years). I always warmed it up. But again I don`t know if they did, or if they rode it hard though I`m sure they would have maintained it, especially when the original owner was a mechanic and owned his own shop. The second guy had always owned Harleys and I`m sure he did too.

d) When this happened, the bike was totally stock as far as I know. Only upgrades to the bike were cosmetic (low screen) or ergonomic (hwy pegs, wind guards in front of knees, wind deflectors under batwing).

e) I don`t have a heated garage so did store it in 40 below C for a winter. I also didn`t winterize it or treat the fuel. I think I topped up the tank to prevent condensation and that`s it. I`m used to snowmobiles where you fire them up throughout the off-season, running up to temp and shutting down, but forgot that Harley`s don`t crank over too well in the cold. Not sure if that would cause a problem, except I think the damage was done in the fall. That`s because I forgot to mention that when I went to start it in the spring, it wouldn`t start but crank and crank and crank. Finally out of habit with snowmobiles, thinking it may be flooded, I pinned the throttle and cranked and finally it went `kabump kabump kabump` like on one cylinder, running very unevenly and kind of a grinding and/or banging sound. It didn`t sound good but I just couldn`t believe my `new to me` bike with such low km could have actually just damaged itself when it ran so perfectly on the 19,000 km trip and in the fall around town. I figured that was what a huge v twin sounds like when running on one 800 cc cylinder.....though the brief grinding/banging sound concerned me. I think that`s when the damage happened. After that I tried with WOT a few more times and got it running but it would stall. I took it outside and removed the air filter and whala it ran/idled without using the throttle. It sounded normal to me, as in running on both cylinders, but a local backyard Harley mechanic (there to help troubleshoot) said something sounded off. I honestly couldn`t tell but he could. I cleaned the air filter which was pretty dirty, replaced it after idling the bike with no air cleaner for some time like 10-15 minutes, yes probably grinding piston aluminum the entire time, but it would stall even with a clean filter. It was blowing oil out the tubes sticking out by the air filter as well. I then drove it 5 minutes to load it up to take it to a shop. And that`s where the above story starts, where he discovered the broken piston and ultimately, blued crankshaft conn rods and telling me it`s from running 6th gear at 100 kph.

 

Yah I tend to go on alright......trying to arm you guys with as much info/background as possible. Yep 100 kph is 60 mph. I think US owners manuals would therefore say shift to 6th at 55 mph.

I used to do the same thing, i.e. running in top gear when I don`t need acceleration but merely maintaining velocity at 100 kph, snicking down to 5th to pass or go up hills only (actually though - proud of my Harley`s torque, I`d tend to keep it in 6th on hills too, only going to 5th if rpm`s started dropping which sometimes they didn`t). So shifting up or down as required.

I forgot who quickly people answer on this site! I went on another diatribe adding even more background, only to find I already had 3-4 responses! Thanks a lot to everyone who has already and will answer.

 

It does feel better using 5th vs 6th that`s for sure. Not that it didn`t seem fine at 2200 rpm all those miles the summer of 2010, but now when I get curious and use 6th it just seems to be throbbing a bit. I thought at the time (2010) Harley`s were SUPPOSED to have a bit of a throb to them....if that`s the right word. It`s a subtle throb or rumble but certainly didn`t seem like lugging. However I quickly go back to 5th, because the mechanic has me totally paranoid now, and it both sounds and feels better. If I go to 90 or 80 kph I go to 4th gear and again it feels and sounds good/natural there. I`m pretty much settled on 4th for 80-100 kph, 5th for 100-120 kph, and 6th for 120 kph plus.

So you keep it at 3000 kph for hours on end like on a cross-continent tour? That would be equivalent to using 4th gear at 100 kph I think since 5th at 100 kph on my 2008 at least is 2600 rpm. I think there`s about a 400 rpm jump between gears (6th at 100 kph was 2200 rpm). But yes the motor feels nice at 3000 rpm....indeed better even than at 2600 rpm. It just seems liek 4th or even 5th would use more gas due to higher revs. That`s the reason Harley and the dealer service manager gave for 6th gear, it was for use at legal speeds like 100 kph.

My question though isn`t really where it feels or sound best, but can 6th at 100 kph DAMAGE the engine and if so why won`t Harley Canada (the top tech in the office that day anyway) admit it? Surely they must know about it. But if they knew.....why don`t they communicate it and change the owner`s manuals? Allowing riders to blow their engines will only result in our moving to Victory. I would have already if it weren`t for just spending $2500 in taxes 2 years ago and $6000 in repairs/upgrades. Okay I`m also trusting that indeed I was the cause of the damage, riding it too slowly in top gear despite what the manual says, and I`ll now have better luck provided I use 5th.

 

Yes I told them it was a 2008 in my very detailed (as you might have guessed) voice message, unless she promptly forgot. She was excellent and really wanted to help me. You see I was phoning to ask if, given the mechanic/owner`s ascertion that it was due to using 6th at 100 kph, Harley would pay for some of the repairs given I rode it that way based on the manual. Yes even though it was off warranty I thought it wouldn`t hurt to ask. She really did seem to be considering it until I explained the mechanic/shop wasn`t a Harley dealer. Recall there was none in that town.....though there is now. She said they can`t know the damaged parts came from that very bike since it wasn`t a Harley dealer. Fair enough. I was really kicking myself that I didn`t spend a bit more and had it shipped a few hours further West to an actual Harley dealer, but of course it being a 2 year old bike off warranty, I didn`t think Harley would ever pay anything anyway. I also assumed it was a minor problem, since to me this was a new bike. I shouldn`t even have to worry about problems until 100,000 km. But then I`ve had Honda`s and Rotax engined bikes in the past. Anyway I couldn`t have known given it`s running near perfecly that 19,000 trip and through the fall, that this could be anything but a little tuning issue despite the clunk/grinding sound I heard which I attributed (in denial perhaps?) to running on one huge cylinder. However I don`t feel so bad and am not kicking myself now, because she and her tech already said that 6th and 100 kph is not a known issue that could cause crank and piston failure, so even if it were at the dealer I doubt they would have taken any responsibility. Especially when a couple years off warranty and my being the third owner. And that was the only reason I thought I might get some compensation to keep me with Harley`s the rest of my life......that my following the manual recommendations caused my engine to explode off warranty. Anyhoo, mine was running `smooth` up until 29,000 km too (though 30,000 miles is more you may just be luckier) but apparently causing damage the entire time. According to him anyway. If mine hadn`t blown I`d probably still be riding in 6th at 100 kph only to have it go at 50,000 km for the same reason. Or not, that`s what I`m hoping to find out if there`s any basis for what he`s claiming. But yours is not a pre-09 so you`re probably fine.

He does seem to be saying the same thing as your friends though re pre-09 US model 6-speeds. He says 120 plus, or maybe 130 plus now with my more powerful 103 ci Stage II engine which he says will only make it worse at 100 kph in 6th. I think 120 kph is about 70 mph or even 75 mph. 160 kph is 100 mph and 100 kph is 60 mph, so since 20 kph is 1/3 of the 60 kph diff btwn 160 kph and 100 kph, and 1/3 of the 40 mph diff btwn 60 mph and 100 mph is 13 mph......yep 120 kph would be about 73 mph. I`m in the middle of a post and don`t feel like googling or using a calculator! So yes he`s saying about 75 mph plus for 6th.

I wonder if CDN 09+ 6 speeds have the same ratios?

 

(QUOTE) He does seem to be saying the same thing as your friends though re pre-09 US model 6-speeds. He says 120 plus, or maybe 130 plus now with my more powerful 103 ci Stage II engine which he says will only make it worse at 100 kph in 6th. I think 120 kph is about 70 mph or even 75 mph. 160 kph is 100 mph and 100 kph is 60 mph, so since 20 kph is 1/3 of the 60 kph diff btwn 160 kph and 100 kph, and 1/3 of the 40 mph diff btwn 60 mph and 100 mph is 13 mph......yep 120 kph would be about 73 mph. I`m in the middle of a post and don`t feel like googling or using a calculator! So yes he`s saying about 75 mph plus for 6th.

I wonder if CDN 09+ 6 speeds have the same ratios?[/QUOTE]

I would say they are. Looks like US, H-D International, Japan. Oops, i had the numbers switched in previous post but corrected it.

Gear Ratios (overall): U.S. HDI JPN
- 1st 9.593 9.593 9.593
- 2nd 6.650 6.650 6.650
- 3rd 4.938 4.938 4.938
- 4th 4.000 4.000 4.000
- 5th 3.407 3.407 3.407
- 6th 2.875 2.875 2.875

 

Thanks for correcting that as yes it did seem backwards (though just assumed I was the one that was confused!)