Death by Throttle
#1
Death by Throttle
Hello reader(s)...First post, so I hope I'm in the right place. I'm a Chief Warrant Officer in the Army, and I'm the Senor Motorcycle Mentor for the Squadron, so its kind of embarrassing not to have my bike running. I've had a ghost in my 08 Heritage Softail Classic for about 6 months. Just over 57000 miles. It's not throwing any codes. I'm at a loss and tired of throwing parts at it. But the good news is less work for those of you with a lot more experience under your belt than me. I'm a mechanic by hobby, so I have a strong understanding of the mechanical workings. It's the electrical issues I hate. I've restored cars from the frame up, but I understand my 15-year-old daughter better than what's going on with this bike!. So here goes my issue(s).
In the beginning (last fall), I rode from Killeen Tx to Round Rock. No issues, no warning signs, just a clean ride. On my way back, my speedometer dropped to 0 from about 55, the bike shut off, and I coasted to the shoulder. After about 30 minutes of checking the bike over, I was able to get the bike started (didn't make any mechanical or electrical changes, It just decided it was ready). If your thinking it might be overheating, you'd be almost right. I was able to drive about 1/2 before the bike died again. I had it towed to the Harley Dealership in Round Rock. They spent a week trying to reproduce the issue with no luck.
I trailered the bike from Round Rock, back to the Killeen dealership. They spent about 2 weeks telling me my stator was bad, then it was my crank position sensor needed to be replaced. Then it was a bad ground on my regulator. After those got fixed, they said it was good to go. I rode the bike for a day with no issues. However, the second day was a repeat of Round Rock. Back at ground zero with a bunch of new parts on my bike I didn't need, I stored it for the winter.
I sent it back to Harley last month. They said my fuel pressure was low and I needed a new fuel pump. They hooked the bike up to the dyno and found the Engine Temp Sensor was failing randomly. It would show normal temp readings then suddenly say it was -20 degrees. So I took the bike out of the shop and ordered the parts myself and replaced them. They were easy fixes, and I was careful to clean out the tank real good after pulling the old fuel pump out because the mesh strainer was mostly disintegrated. After I put it back together, I spend the next day trying to figure out why the bike wouldn't start.
Turned out when the dealership put my bike back together, they forgot to plug the Crank Position Sensor cable back in behind the regulator. I was able to get the bike started, but it ran like crap and shook like a 383 stroker with a missing dampener. Every time I tried to give the bike some throttle, it would instantly die. I could slow roll the throttle to about 2000 rpm, but it wouldn't hold and die. Back to the dealership. They said my fuel pressure was still too low, so by the way, I needed a new fuel filter and fuel pressure, regulator. But hey...new fuel pump assembly I didn't need (well except the mesh filter). After they got those parts in, they called me to say I needed a new throttle position sensor because the one I had was busted. I told them that if that didn't fix the problem, I was going to have to take it somewhere else because I'm out of money, and they didn't have a clue what's really wrong with my bike. All they did was make me buy a bunch of useless parts. Sure, it was probably time to replace some of them, but it could have waited. The throttle sensor didn't fix my issue, so, as I calmly picked up my non-working bike from the dealership again, a mechanic told me it might be clogged fuel injectors or bad electrical cables.
Anyway, $1300 later, the $36 engine temp sensor was most likely the original issue. But now the bike is sitting in my garage again. I check the fuel injector wiring with a noid light, and everything checked out there. I pulled the fuel injectors and cleaned them out. I get great atomization, and the bike runs great. Well, actually, it idles great. Sort of. I have to spray carb cleaner into the intake to get her going (I get a terrible grinding sound when I try and crank the bike (this was an issue prior to Round Rock). I originally thought it was trying to vapor lock, but now I think the starter teeth might be worn out.) Regardless, once the bike starts, it will purr like a kitten. It will run indefinitely, so I know the fuel system is working, and it's not just running off carb cleaner fumes. I can let it run for 5 min or 10 minutes; it doesn't matter. But when I turn the throttle, the bike dies. I can slow roll the throttle for about 3 to 5 seconds before it dies around 2000 rpm.
That's where I'm stuck at. I believe its an electrical problem, but I can't figure out what. It has a new throttle position sensor, a new fuel system with squeaky clean fuel injectors, a new charging system, and a new engine temp sensor. Battery has been load-tested, so I know it's not failing when stressed (even though 2000 RPMs isn't exactly stressing the bike). Please, if you have any ideas, let me know, and I'll put them to the test. Thanks
I'll post some pics and a video tomorrow.
In the beginning (last fall), I rode from Killeen Tx to Round Rock. No issues, no warning signs, just a clean ride. On my way back, my speedometer dropped to 0 from about 55, the bike shut off, and I coasted to the shoulder. After about 30 minutes of checking the bike over, I was able to get the bike started (didn't make any mechanical or electrical changes, It just decided it was ready). If your thinking it might be overheating, you'd be almost right. I was able to drive about 1/2 before the bike died again. I had it towed to the Harley Dealership in Round Rock. They spent a week trying to reproduce the issue with no luck.
I trailered the bike from Round Rock, back to the Killeen dealership. They spent about 2 weeks telling me my stator was bad, then it was my crank position sensor needed to be replaced. Then it was a bad ground on my regulator. After those got fixed, they said it was good to go. I rode the bike for a day with no issues. However, the second day was a repeat of Round Rock. Back at ground zero with a bunch of new parts on my bike I didn't need, I stored it for the winter.
I sent it back to Harley last month. They said my fuel pressure was low and I needed a new fuel pump. They hooked the bike up to the dyno and found the Engine Temp Sensor was failing randomly. It would show normal temp readings then suddenly say it was -20 degrees. So I took the bike out of the shop and ordered the parts myself and replaced them. They were easy fixes, and I was careful to clean out the tank real good after pulling the old fuel pump out because the mesh strainer was mostly disintegrated. After I put it back together, I spend the next day trying to figure out why the bike wouldn't start.
Turned out when the dealership put my bike back together, they forgot to plug the Crank Position Sensor cable back in behind the regulator. I was able to get the bike started, but it ran like crap and shook like a 383 stroker with a missing dampener. Every time I tried to give the bike some throttle, it would instantly die. I could slow roll the throttle to about 2000 rpm, but it wouldn't hold and die. Back to the dealership. They said my fuel pressure was still too low, so by the way, I needed a new fuel filter and fuel pressure, regulator. But hey...new fuel pump assembly I didn't need (well except the mesh filter). After they got those parts in, they called me to say I needed a new throttle position sensor because the one I had was busted. I told them that if that didn't fix the problem, I was going to have to take it somewhere else because I'm out of money, and they didn't have a clue what's really wrong with my bike. All they did was make me buy a bunch of useless parts. Sure, it was probably time to replace some of them, but it could have waited. The throttle sensor didn't fix my issue, so, as I calmly picked up my non-working bike from the dealership again, a mechanic told me it might be clogged fuel injectors or bad electrical cables.
Anyway, $1300 later, the $36 engine temp sensor was most likely the original issue. But now the bike is sitting in my garage again. I check the fuel injector wiring with a noid light, and everything checked out there. I pulled the fuel injectors and cleaned them out. I get great atomization, and the bike runs great. Well, actually, it idles great. Sort of. I have to spray carb cleaner into the intake to get her going (I get a terrible grinding sound when I try and crank the bike (this was an issue prior to Round Rock). I originally thought it was trying to vapor lock, but now I think the starter teeth might be worn out.) Regardless, once the bike starts, it will purr like a kitten. It will run indefinitely, so I know the fuel system is working, and it's not just running off carb cleaner fumes. I can let it run for 5 min or 10 minutes; it doesn't matter. But when I turn the throttle, the bike dies. I can slow roll the throttle for about 3 to 5 seconds before it dies around 2000 rpm.
That's where I'm stuck at. I believe its an electrical problem, but I can't figure out what. It has a new throttle position sensor, a new fuel system with squeaky clean fuel injectors, a new charging system, and a new engine temp sensor. Battery has been load-tested, so I know it's not failing when stressed (even though 2000 RPMs isn't exactly stressing the bike). Please, if you have any ideas, let me know, and I'll put them to the test. Thanks
I'll post some pics and a video tomorrow.
Last edited by MikeyBGr8; 06-19-2020 at 10:17 PM. Reason: spelling
#4
Check/load test your battery first. Check all wiring/grounding/connections, especially injector wires. Check wiring harness under tank for frayed/pinched wires. Did you replace in all the in-tank fuel hoses? Does bike have a fuel computer? If so, you may need to calibrate the throttle. Try disabling fuel computer, if that fixes issue, computer may be toast. Check and clean IAC. Test ignition coil. Test and check main breaker. Check connections at fuel pump fuse, and other fuses.
#5
#6
Check/load test your battery first. Check all wiring/grounding/connections, especially injector wires. Check wiring harness under tank for frayed/pinched wires. Did you replace in all the in-tank fuel hoses? Does bike have a fuel computer? If so, you may need to calibrate the throttle. Try disabling fuel computer, if that fixes issue, computer may be toast. Check and clean IAC. Test ignition coil. Test and check main breaker. Check connections at fuel pump fuse, and other fuses.
I’ve load tested the battery. Checking all the wiring/grounding/connections is a rather tall order. I was hoping for a more specific testing recommendation from anyone who’s got some experience working on bikes that die when given throttle. For the most part I’ve checked all the visible cables for pinching, especially under the tank. I’ve replaced the fuel/system relay and tested all fuses. I’ve tested the fuel injector cables with a noid light and didn’t find any issues there. The whole fuel system was replaced with the exception of the float. If by fuel computer your referring to the MAP Sensor, it was tested by Harley as a possible fault, but they eventually ruled it out after finding the engine temp sensor fault. But if a MAP sensor can cause my issue then I’ll look into getting a new one. I know I said I was tired of throwing parts at my bike, but realistically, I’m just tired of buying a $30 part and paying $230 to let the dealership install it. I’m not sure how to bypass the fuel computer but if I can find brain surgery on you tube I’m sure I can find computer bypass instructions.
There are no current trouble codes nor any codes saved in history.
Last edited by MikeyBGr8; 06-20-2020 at 12:54 PM.
#7
Z might be on the right track. The plugs can indicate to you whether it has the correct fuel-air mixture.
Even though no codes are showing, you might have an air leak at the intake, O2 sensor problem, or the like.
When an engine dies with throttle action, it tells me there is too much fuel, or too much air.
Hope you find the cause soon.
Even though no codes are showing, you might have an air leak at the intake, O2 sensor problem, or the like.
When an engine dies with throttle action, it tells me there is too much fuel, or too much air.
Hope you find the cause soon.
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