Are open primary drives more practical than the chain-driven standard?
#1
09-13-2013, 08:22 PM
Are open primary drives more practical than the chain-driven standard?
Just wondering. If Harley went from chain to belt drive, why haven't they done the same thing with the primary?
Wouldn't it be more practical? It's one fluid less to replace right? I'm not bashing the chain-driven primary system (though it is somewhat outdated tech) but I'm considering switching to a belt driven primary in the future and want to know if it's worth the hassle.
Wouldn't it be more practical? It's one fluid less to replace right? I'm not bashing the chain-driven primary system (though it is somewhat outdated tech) but I'm considering switching to a belt driven primary in the future and want to know if it's worth the hassle.
#3
09-13-2013, 08:45 PM
open belt drives I love the look off them.BUT in the real world they are ****in useless, dirt roads and other bad roads all it takes is a few rocks and your belt pulleys are ****ed..Harley cannot control where your bike is ridden hence no O E M open primary drive,, and don't forget the law suits from people getting their legs caught,,, Pigs will grow wings and fly before they do it.
#4
09-13-2013, 08:45 PM
It's definitely a weight savings. Open or closed has little to do with it, but the belt system helps balance out our left-heavy bikes. I suppose open would be even lighter than a closed belt system.
I'm not big on an open primary because I ride daily and don't need the chance of debris ruining my day.
I'm not big on an open primary because I ride daily and don't need the chance of debris ruining my day.
#5
09-13-2013, 09:01 PM
#6
09-13-2013, 09:16 PM
open belt drives I love the look off them.BUT in the real world they are ****in useless, dirt roads and other bad roads all it takes is a few rocks and your belt pulleys are ****ed..Harley cannot control where your bike is ridden hence no O E M open primary drive,, and don't forget the law suits from people getting their legs caught,,, Pigs will grow wings and fly before they do it.
I'm not big on an open primary because I ride daily and don't need the chance of debris ruining my day.
What about primary belt drives that are enclosed? Still belt drive, but enclosed so that debris won't get to it. "Best of both worlds" right?
Rivera Primo offers this option...it ain't exactly cheap, but if it's more reliable in the long run, then I would definitely consider it.
...edit:
No dry primaries are good for one thing drag racing.
Last edited by FXD_noob; 09-13-2013 at 09:18 PM.
#7
09-13-2013, 09:27 PM
Road Warrior
The 1991 Sturgis model had enclosed belt primary with rear wheel belt and the only year I think. The other thing to watch out for other than rocks and stuff getting in your belt, is your jeans getting caught up , I have seen this, not a good thing as the engine stalled when the jeans were jammed between the belt and sprocket stalling the engine , then not having the left foot available to put on the ground when stopped causes other issues as you can imagine.
Benefit is there is no fluid to buy and no more primary leaks, no chain adjustment either, but the old school look is awesome.
Benefit is there is no fluid to buy and no more primary leaks, no chain adjustment either, but the old school look is awesome.
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#8
09-13-2013, 10:10 PM
#9
09-14-2013, 10:02 AM
Elite HDF Member
#10
09-14-2013, 11:30 AM
Originally Posted by Andew/Ducati forum
Originally Posted by Andrew View Post
Dry versus Wet clutches:
Most of this has been well covered above - I have bikes with both (although not an 848 and 1098):
To recap -
Wet clutch -
Advantages:
- Smoother engagement
- Less wear
- Tolerates slipping during take-off
- Cheaper to manufacture (i.e. inside engine less seals and covers)
- Quiet operation (noise dampened by both oil and engine cases)
- Cooled by engine oil
Disadvantages:
- Clutch debris mixed in engine oil (oil filter takes care of this)
- Rotating clutch in oil bath causes dragon engine (some loss in HP to rear wheel)
- Oil needs to be specially formulated for clutch presence
Wet clutch -
Advantages:
- Clutch easier to work on (ideal in racing applications)
- No loss in HP due to clutch rotating in oil bath (biggest reason why racers use them)
- Can use friction modifieid oils in engine
Disadvantages:
- Oil needs to be specially formulated for clutch presence
- Tends to grab during engagement (making take-offs difficult)
- Slipping during take-off overheats clutch easily causing excessive wear and also tends to make clutch operation less progressive.
- Shorter operational life (very user dependent)
- Once hot very difficult to cool - especially if no open clutch cover
- Can be very noisy (exacerbated by using open clutch covers)
Axioms:
- Wet clutches are easier to pull on the clutch lever, not true lever pressure is very dependent on the clutch set-up. Remember most bikes with dry clutches are high performance so need stronger clutch springs, thus have higher lever pressures - no other reason.
- Dry clutches can transmit more power, not true the most powerful bikes have wet clutches (Hyabusa, MV-312R, GSX-R, R1 etc). No as stated above a dry clutch does not consume power, so more is available at the back wheel.
- Only dry clutches can be used as slipper clutches, not true, makes no difference.
Will you feel a difference? Oh yes, getting off the line smoothly with a dry clutch is harder (as they tend to grab). Don't fuss over this as like everything else in the world you'll get used to it and ride around the problem. Once underway you won't be able to tell the difference.
If you do alot of "stop - start" city riding a wet clutch is generally easier to live with.
I ride to work everyday on a bike with a wet clutch and my weekend bike has a dry clutch - this isn't by deliberate design it just happens to be the individual set-ups. Personally I wouldn't make the presence or absence of a particular style of clutch be the final influence on my purchase descision.
Andrew...
Dry versus Wet clutches:
Most of this has been well covered above - I have bikes with both (although not an 848 and 1098):
To recap -
Wet clutch -
Advantages:
- Smoother engagement
- Less wear
- Tolerates slipping during take-off
- Cheaper to manufacture (i.e. inside engine less seals and covers)
- Quiet operation (noise dampened by both oil and engine cases)
- Cooled by engine oil
Disadvantages:
- Clutch debris mixed in engine oil (oil filter takes care of this)
- Rotating clutch in oil bath causes dragon engine (some loss in HP to rear wheel)
- Oil needs to be specially formulated for clutch presence
Wet clutch -
Advantages:
- Clutch easier to work on (ideal in racing applications)
- No loss in HP due to clutch rotating in oil bath (biggest reason why racers use them)
- Can use friction modifieid oils in engine
Disadvantages:
- Oil needs to be specially formulated for clutch presence
- Tends to grab during engagement (making take-offs difficult)
- Slipping during take-off overheats clutch easily causing excessive wear and also tends to make clutch operation less progressive.
- Shorter operational life (very user dependent)
- Once hot very difficult to cool - especially if no open clutch cover
- Can be very noisy (exacerbated by using open clutch covers)
Axioms:
- Wet clutches are easier to pull on the clutch lever, not true lever pressure is very dependent on the clutch set-up. Remember most bikes with dry clutches are high performance so need stronger clutch springs, thus have higher lever pressures - no other reason.
- Dry clutches can transmit more power, not true the most powerful bikes have wet clutches (Hyabusa, MV-312R, GSX-R, R1 etc). No as stated above a dry clutch does not consume power, so more is available at the back wheel.
- Only dry clutches can be used as slipper clutches, not true, makes no difference.
Will you feel a difference? Oh yes, getting off the line smoothly with a dry clutch is harder (as they tend to grab). Don't fuss over this as like everything else in the world you'll get used to it and ride around the problem. Once underway you won't be able to tell the difference.
If you do alot of "stop - start" city riding a wet clutch is generally easier to live with.
I ride to work everyday on a bike with a wet clutch and my weekend bike has a dry clutch - this isn't by deliberate design it just happens to be the individual set-ups. Personally I wouldn't make the presence or absence of a particular style of clutch be the final influence on my purchase descision.
Andrew...