This thread is not a pissing match so dont turn it into one!

There are a million arguements on this topic so lets just keep this one informative and help people tune there bikes.

Im starting this thread to educate anyone that needs help (including me) with any system ...sept,pv,pcv. ect

what ive learned so far.

Now ive cured all 95% of my decel popping by adding. 15% fuel over stock ratios from 2000 rpm threw to 6000 at 0% throttle.

It still had a very slight decel pop in the 1750-2500 rpm range. i changed the ratios in that rmp range to 18% over stock values. that totally eleminated my decel pop and backfireing.

Then i had a tiny knock to deal with when it was at an idel.For this i simply increased fuel to from 5% to 10% over stock value in the 950-1050 rmp range, this also worked flawlessly. i didnt increase it over 1050-1200 rpm range simply because i figured at cold start i didnt want to be pumping any extra fuel into it, let her warm up easy..get the oils flowing ect

Now a few Questions.
Advanced timing? how many degres should you advance? whats the safe range? to Advanced will cause pinging right?and you can decrease timing in certian rpm ranges to get rid of pinging right?....now knowing when to decrease timing is easy cause of the pinging, how do i know where and how much to advance the timing? any insight would be appricated.

 

Thanks for trying to help me extend my knoledge.
How do you tell ( without Dyno ) if you are too rich?

 

I dont know, BUT what i did was increase by 2% incerments over stock values until my decel popping went away. it took alot of trial and error but after 5-6 runs around town and back to the computer i finally got it to stop with as little as 15% over stock values.

i was told to go with 5% increments, but i too was worried about running it more rich than i had to so i went with 2% increments., it took longer but i know its not to rich

 

If you have a tuner that can log data, including knock retard control, that's probably the easiest way to know when to decrease timing. If your tuner doesn't do that I'm assuming it would be a trial/error thing by riding and noting what RPM range you get pinging, then adjust timing. Someone considerably more knowledgeable will probably be along shortly.

 

Correct. either way would work depending on the unit you run. sept and pv will log for you. pcv and other piggyback systems will not,(that ive seen)

Without a unit that can log;
Knowing when to decrease is the easy part.What i want to know is how to tell when to Advance the timing,and in what rpm,by how many degrees (1 degree at a time im assuming)

 

Let me throw another angle in here for some to think about.

While I applaud your effort it just seems like an awful lot of work that you should not need to put into riding a street bike, now for racing, that is a different story.

The are lots of guys/gals out there that for one reason or another do not want to learn all this stuff, either because they do not wish to or do not have the time to put into it, or simply do not feel comfortable messing with the tuning tables.

You have to decide what your time is worth. Personally I would rather ride than have to worry about doing all of this every time I make a change. I wasted enough time with the Fuelpak and a PCIII to know that is not the way to go for me.

If you want to ride and enjoy the bike, an autotuner is the way to go, if you are going to spend the money, why not buy a smart tuner and let it do the work, instead of having to second guess the damn thing?

Yes they cost a few bucks more, but what is your time worth?

I can tell you without hesitation my bike runs much smoother and stronger with the Thundermax than it ever did with either of the other tuners I tried. I can also tell you it runs cooler, the TMax logs head temps, in the last year it has hit 368 degrees one time and it has not gone above that nor has the parade mode kicked in once since installing it. The most frequent head temp is 272 degrees, all temps over 312 are 1 time only in the logs, I cannot say that about any other tuner I have tried. The beauty of all of this, all I had to do was install the unit, calibrate it and occasionally run the Automap feature which takes about 5 minutes.

The TMax will tell you a lot about your riding habits as well, for instance the logs for RPM show I run in the 2300-2900 range the majority of the time, and I have hit the rev limiter 0 times.

 

Excellent information to add to the thread!!

i looked at the thundermax but it wasnt available for my 2012 fat bob. hopefully it is soon because i would love to try it out.

i wanted the power vision, actually tryed to order it but my funds at the time would only let me get the pcv,(wife went shoe shopping) i will be buying the power vision within a month or two, as soon as i get home from sturgis north anyways.But having the knowlage to tune your bike real time, without the data log and auto tuners gives me a sense of acomplishment.

Im definatly one of those guys who has an undieing urge to know everything, drives me nuts when i cant fix stuff my self.

 

Interesting. While I'm sure you can achieve decent seat of the pants results, I'd be careful with messing with the fuel tables and timing without the ability to monitor your A/F ratio's. You don't want to create a lean condition that you might not notice and burn a valve or piston.

I know how I used to tune my carbs by sound, reading the plugs and how it felt.


The more I read, the more I realize I don't understand much about this subject.

I too run a PCV and a canned map, and I know my bike is not in a great state of tune. Sure it runs good, gets decent mileage but it is not perfect. I'm curious to hear how these changes affect your fuel mileage, cause I'd like to tune out some of my decel popping too!



For those with more knowledge than I...would it pay to get the auto tune for my PCV or do what Dooley is going to do and get a power vision or the t-max. Both are expensive options and yes, I do plan to make more changes such as cams/heads down the road...and hate to pay $400 to get it dyno tuned each time as well. I'm not unhappy with the way my bike runs at all...but the more I read and this thread is helpful, I realize PCV is not just ideal tuner.

 

Im not worried about creating a lean condition simply because im not lowering ANY of the fuel values. just increasing same goes for detonation and detonation induced pre-ignition, knocking, pinging ect.

What i am worried about is the advanced timing(thats why im not messing with that until i get the powervision or COMPLEATLY understand it. from what i gathered talking to guys and here on the forum is that if you have pinging your timing is advanced to far....decreaseing it you will lose power/preformance but get rid of the pinging, simple enought right?

BUT what i want to know and understand is when to advance the timing,and by how many degrees? do i go until i get pinging and back it off?

Anyways my bike now runs like a raped ape compared to before. much cooler(doesnt even get hot on my inner thigh) no popping or backfiring and if i lost any fuel milage it wasnt noticable.... ill fill up tonight and let you know for sure the stats on the milage.

and if by chance you do create a lean condition your bike will let you know, pay close attention to her(spark plugs,temp,power,pinging,knocking ect) its scary at first but once you get results like a cooler engine, no knocking,backfiring,popping... speaks for it self.

 

Someone will no doubt correct me here but I don't think you are going to get great results altering the timing for power without a dyno. You could do what some have done in the past and increase the timing at WOT until it pings then back it off 3 degs or so, but without a dyno you really don't know if that's producing better power. There's also the risk that if you get a tank of shitty fuel because that's all that's available then the engine could ping a lot.

I'd not rely on my ear to check for pinging but use the logging feature of the tuner. By the time you can hear pinging its already been pinging before that.

With the mixture you can get a rough feel for things from the plugs and listening for over-run popping, but timing is trickier as you only have pinging to go by; the change in power is probably not going to be enough to feel. In fact, the changes might not be that great on the dyno, maybe just 1 or 2 TQ for a 5° change in timing.

Also, I've noticed that the canned maps from Harley have plenty of timing in them already. Too much in some cases if you are running some lower octane fuel. You will also not want too much timing in there if you have a high compression build as it will already tend to ping.