Which Tuner-Opinions wanted
#11
04-26-2012, 07:49 PM
I'll try and keep this short as I have posted it on here before. You need to know what options are out there as to know what's "best" for you.
There are three kind of solutions out there when it comes to tuning your bike. Note I said solutions, not tuners as some of the solutions aren't adjustable or "tunable".
Solution 1 - Dumb Spoofers. Dumb Spoofers trick the Engine Control Module (ECM) on your bike into believing one thing so it will do another. Two examples of these kind of solutions are IEDs and the V&H FuelPak. IEDs are nothing more than a resister with a certain resistance that go between your O2 sensors and your main wiring harness. They change the voltage of the signal that the O2s are sending back to the ECM to get the ECM to believe the bike is running leaner than it really is and thus causes the ECM to add more fuel to compensate. The FuelPak is similar but a bit more complex. What makes these solutions "dumb" is that they cannot be adjusted. You plug them in and go hoping their "spoofs" are close enough. These devices must stay on the bike in order for them to work. If removed or they fail, the stock settings in the ECM are no longer being fooled and your bike goes back to running on the stock tune in stock fashion.
Solution 2 - Smart Spoofers. The PowerCommander (III and V) fall into this catagory. Basically they are like the FuelPak and will spoof inputs coming into the ECM and modify the signals that are going out of the ECM to the different engine controls like fuel injectors and timing. The difference is that with these, you can make adjustments to them and truely "tune" the bike. However, they are still just fooling the stock ECM programming to get it to do what you want. Like the "Dumb Spoofers", these devices must stay on the bike in order for them to work. If removed or they fail, the stock settings in the ECM are no longer being fooled and your bike goes back to running on the stock tune in stock fashion.
Solution 3 - ECM Flasher. The SERTPRO and PowerVision both fall into this catagory. These solutions allow you to read the tune programmed into the ECM, modify it, then reprogram, or "flash" the new tune back into the stock ECM. Unlike the other solutions, these devices do not have to stay on the bike because your stock ECM has been reprogrammed and is doing all the work...just with different parameters to calculate fuel and spark needs. I like the fact that with the SERTPRO it is not "married" to one specific bike. I did not know this. I personally have the PowerVision. What I like about the PowerVision is that it is not just a reprogrammer, but a data logger too. You can ride your bike around and "scan" the computer as your ride to find out exactly how your current tune is performing. You can then take this information and use it to make adjustments to your current tune to get it spot on.
Now, I'm not a great tuner so one feature about the PowerVision I like, called Autotune (basic and pro are available...basic comes with the system and pro requires a purchase of an additional piece of hardware), is that you can do a bunch of scans, upload those scans to another program that you can download (for free) from FuelMoto, and allow that program to adjust the tune for you and write a new tune to reflash to the ECM. There is another solution out there (drawing a blank) that is similar to the PowerVision and has an Autotune feature like this as well.
Rating the Solutions.
As you move from Solution 1 to Solution 3, the effectivness of each solution gets better while the price of each solution gets greater. Thus, it comes down to a decision, by you, of how much do you value that "perfect tune"? The more value you put in getting that perfect tune, the higher on the Solution scale you go and the more money you'll spend. Thowing a set of IEDs on your bike may work okay but they will be a long way off from perfect...but they're cheap! Getting a SERTPRO and putting it on a dyno with someone who really knows how to tune bikes is going to get you a near perfect tune (I always believe doing scans while riding real world and using that info rather than data off a dyno will result in a better tune) but it's going to cost you the most money.
So, what's best? Well, it depends on what you want to spend and what result you're looking for.
There are three kind of solutions out there when it comes to tuning your bike. Note I said solutions, not tuners as some of the solutions aren't adjustable or "tunable".
Solution 1 - Dumb Spoofers. Dumb Spoofers trick the Engine Control Module (ECM) on your bike into believing one thing so it will do another. Two examples of these kind of solutions are IEDs and the V&H FuelPak. IEDs are nothing more than a resister with a certain resistance that go between your O2 sensors and your main wiring harness. They change the voltage of the signal that the O2s are sending back to the ECM to get the ECM to believe the bike is running leaner than it really is and thus causes the ECM to add more fuel to compensate. The FuelPak is similar but a bit more complex. What makes these solutions "dumb" is that they cannot be adjusted. You plug them in and go hoping their "spoofs" are close enough. These devices must stay on the bike in order for them to work. If removed or they fail, the stock settings in the ECM are no longer being fooled and your bike goes back to running on the stock tune in stock fashion.
Solution 2 - Smart Spoofers. The PowerCommander (III and V) fall into this catagory. Basically they are like the FuelPak and will spoof inputs coming into the ECM and modify the signals that are going out of the ECM to the different engine controls like fuel injectors and timing. The difference is that with these, you can make adjustments to them and truely "tune" the bike. However, they are still just fooling the stock ECM programming to get it to do what you want. Like the "Dumb Spoofers", these devices must stay on the bike in order for them to work. If removed or they fail, the stock settings in the ECM are no longer being fooled and your bike goes back to running on the stock tune in stock fashion.
Solution 3 - ECM Flasher. The SERTPRO and PowerVision both fall into this catagory. These solutions allow you to read the tune programmed into the ECM, modify it, then reprogram, or "flash" the new tune back into the stock ECM. Unlike the other solutions, these devices do not have to stay on the bike because your stock ECM has been reprogrammed and is doing all the work...just with different parameters to calculate fuel and spark needs. I like the fact that with the SERTPRO it is not "married" to one specific bike. I did not know this. I personally have the PowerVision. What I like about the PowerVision is that it is not just a reprogrammer, but a data logger too. You can ride your bike around and "scan" the computer as your ride to find out exactly how your current tune is performing. You can then take this information and use it to make adjustments to your current tune to get it spot on.
Now, I'm not a great tuner so one feature about the PowerVision I like, called Autotune (basic and pro are available...basic comes with the system and pro requires a purchase of an additional piece of hardware), is that you can do a bunch of scans, upload those scans to another program that you can download (for free) from FuelMoto, and allow that program to adjust the tune for you and write a new tune to reflash to the ECM. There is another solution out there (drawing a blank) that is similar to the PowerVision and has an Autotune feature like this as well.
Rating the Solutions.
As you move from Solution 1 to Solution 3, the effectivness of each solution gets better while the price of each solution gets greater. Thus, it comes down to a decision, by you, of how much do you value that "perfect tune"? The more value you put in getting that perfect tune, the higher on the Solution scale you go and the more money you'll spend. Thowing a set of IEDs on your bike may work okay but they will be a long way off from perfect...but they're cheap! Getting a SERTPRO and putting it on a dyno with someone who really knows how to tune bikes is going to get you a near perfect tune (I always believe doing scans while riding real world and using that info rather than data off a dyno will result in a better tune) but it's going to cost you the most money.
So, what's best? Well, it depends on what you want to spend and what result you're looking for.
#12
04-26-2012, 09:55 PM
Cruiser
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Fort Collins Colorado
Posts: 226
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I vote for the SERTPRO. Have about the same mods done to my '12 FXDC when new. Bought SERTPRO & had it dyno tuned @ 1,000 miles & bike runs 100 times better....no decel popping, more power/torque & feels and sounds much better than before the tune. AFR & timing are spot on, and you can have them tune it on the dyno for how you want it to run...I had mine tuned to get the most out of it with no regard to fuel mileage.
A good tuner is worthless without a dyno tune if you want it perfect & to run like a Harley should.
If you go the HD route...get SERTPRO(race tuner pro) not SESPT(street performance tuner).
SESPT is married to the bike and is limited on what you can do(EPA). SERTPRO lets them do whatever you wish to the bike...AFR, timing, rev limit, etc. and is not limited + it is not married to the bike. When you trade you bike, you keep the SERTPRO tuner, which will run about $459.
I decided to go the HD route because I have a great dealer & a good dyno guy there + I know if there are any issues with my tuning in the future they will cover it under warranty since I bought the tuner when bike was new. Also with the SERTPRO if you decide to change or mod your bike in the future(like adding cams or doing head work) you already have the tuner and all they have to do is set it up on the dyno again and tune it for your specific application.
Highly recommend SERTPRO with a dyno tune.
A good tuner is worthless without a dyno tune if you want it perfect & to run like a Harley should.
If you go the HD route...get SERTPRO(race tuner pro) not SESPT(street performance tuner).
SESPT is married to the bike and is limited on what you can do(EPA). SERTPRO lets them do whatever you wish to the bike...AFR, timing, rev limit, etc. and is not limited + it is not married to the bike. When you trade you bike, you keep the SERTPRO tuner, which will run about $459.
I decided to go the HD route because I have a great dealer & a good dyno guy there + I know if there are any issues with my tuning in the future they will cover it under warranty since I bought the tuner when bike was new. Also with the SERTPRO if you decide to change or mod your bike in the future(like adding cams or doing head work) you already have the tuner and all they have to do is set it up on the dyno again and tune it for your specific application.
Highly recommend SERTPRO with a dyno tune.
#13
04-26-2012, 11:12 PM
I'll try and keep this short as I have posted it on here before. You need to know what options are out there as to know what's "best" for you.
There are three kind of solutions out there when it comes to tuning your bike. Note I said solutions, not tuners as some of the solutions aren't adjustable or "tunable".
Solution 1 - Dumb Spoofers. Dumb Spoofers trick the Engine Control Module (ECM) on your bike into believing one thing so it will do another. Two examples of these kind of solutions are IEDs and the V&H FuelPak. IEDs are nothing more than a resister with a certain resistance that go between your O2 sensors and your main wiring harness. They change the voltage of the signal that the O2s are sending back to the ECM to get the ECM to believe the bike is running leaner than it really is and thus causes the ECM to add more fuel to compensate. The FuelPak is similar but a bit more complex. What makes these solutions "dumb" is that they cannot be adjusted. You plug them in and go hoping their "spoofs" are close enough. These devices must stay on the bike in order for them to work. If removed or they fail, the stock settings in the ECM are no longer being fooled and your bike goes back to running on the stock tune in stock fashion.
Solution 2 - Smart Spoofers. The PowerCommander (III and V) fall into this catagory. Basically they are like the FuelPak and will spoof inputs coming into the ECM and modify the signals that are going out of the ECM to the different engine controls like fuel injectors and timing. The difference is that with these, you can make adjustments to them and truely "tune" the bike. However, they are still just fooling the stock ECM programming to get it to do what you want. Like the "Dumb Spoofers", these devices must stay on the bike in order for them to work. If removed or they fail, the stock settings in the ECM are no longer being fooled and your bike goes back to running on the stock tune in stock fashion.
Solution 3 - ECM Flasher. The SERTPRO and PowerVision both fall into this catagory. These solutions allow you to read the tune programmed into the ECM, modify it, then reprogram, or "flash" the new tune back into the stock ECM. Unlike the other solutions, these devices do not have to stay on the bike because your stock ECM has been reprogrammed and is doing all the work...just with different parameters to calculate fuel and spark needs. I like the fact that with the SERTPRO it is not "married" to one specific bike. I did not know this. I personally have the PowerVision. What I like about the PowerVision is that it is not just a reprogrammer, but a data logger too. You can ride your bike around and "scan" the computer as your ride to find out exactly how your current tune is performing. You can then take this information and use it to make adjustments to your current tune to get it spot on.
Now, I'm not a great tuner so one feature about the PowerVision I like, called Autotune (basic and pro are available...basic comes with the system and pro requires a purchase of an additional piece of hardware), is that you can do a bunch of scans, upload those scans to another program that you can download (for free) from FuelMoto, and allow that program to adjust the tune for you and write a new tune to reflash to the ECM. There is another solution out there (drawing a blank) that is similar to the PowerVision and has an Autotune feature like this as well.
Rating the Solutions.
As you move from Solution 1 to Solution 3, the effectivness of each solution gets better while the price of each solution gets greater. Thus, it comes down to a decision, by you, of how much do you value that "perfect tune"? The more value you put in getting that perfect tune, the higher on the Solution scale you go and the more money you'll spend. Thowing a set of IEDs on your bike may work okay but they will be a long way off from perfect...but they're cheap! Getting a SERTPRO and putting it on a dyno with someone who really knows how to tune bikes is going to get you a near perfect tune (I always believe doing scans while riding real world and using that info rather than data off a dyno will result in a better tune) but it's going to cost you the most money.
So, what's best? Well, it depends on what you want to spend and what result you're looking for.
There are three kind of solutions out there when it comes to tuning your bike. Note I said solutions, not tuners as some of the solutions aren't adjustable or "tunable".
Solution 1 - Dumb Spoofers. Dumb Spoofers trick the Engine Control Module (ECM) on your bike into believing one thing so it will do another. Two examples of these kind of solutions are IEDs and the V&H FuelPak. IEDs are nothing more than a resister with a certain resistance that go between your O2 sensors and your main wiring harness. They change the voltage of the signal that the O2s are sending back to the ECM to get the ECM to believe the bike is running leaner than it really is and thus causes the ECM to add more fuel to compensate. The FuelPak is similar but a bit more complex. What makes these solutions "dumb" is that they cannot be adjusted. You plug them in and go hoping their "spoofs" are close enough. These devices must stay on the bike in order for them to work. If removed or they fail, the stock settings in the ECM are no longer being fooled and your bike goes back to running on the stock tune in stock fashion.
Solution 2 - Smart Spoofers. The PowerCommander (III and V) fall into this catagory. Basically they are like the FuelPak and will spoof inputs coming into the ECM and modify the signals that are going out of the ECM to the different engine controls like fuel injectors and timing. The difference is that with these, you can make adjustments to them and truely "tune" the bike. However, they are still just fooling the stock ECM programming to get it to do what you want. Like the "Dumb Spoofers", these devices must stay on the bike in order for them to work. If removed or they fail, the stock settings in the ECM are no longer being fooled and your bike goes back to running on the stock tune in stock fashion.
Solution 3 - ECM Flasher. The SERTPRO and PowerVision both fall into this catagory. These solutions allow you to read the tune programmed into the ECM, modify it, then reprogram, or "flash" the new tune back into the stock ECM. Unlike the other solutions, these devices do not have to stay on the bike because your stock ECM has been reprogrammed and is doing all the work...just with different parameters to calculate fuel and spark needs. I like the fact that with the SERTPRO it is not "married" to one specific bike. I did not know this. I personally have the PowerVision. What I like about the PowerVision is that it is not just a reprogrammer, but a data logger too. You can ride your bike around and "scan" the computer as your ride to find out exactly how your current tune is performing. You can then take this information and use it to make adjustments to your current tune to get it spot on.
Now, I'm not a great tuner so one feature about the PowerVision I like, called Autotune (basic and pro are available...basic comes with the system and pro requires a purchase of an additional piece of hardware), is that you can do a bunch of scans, upload those scans to another program that you can download (for free) from FuelMoto, and allow that program to adjust the tune for you and write a new tune to reflash to the ECM. There is another solution out there (drawing a blank) that is similar to the PowerVision and has an Autotune feature like this as well.
Rating the Solutions.
As you move from Solution 1 to Solution 3, the effectivness of each solution gets better while the price of each solution gets greater. Thus, it comes down to a decision, by you, of how much do you value that "perfect tune"? The more value you put in getting that perfect tune, the higher on the Solution scale you go and the more money you'll spend. Thowing a set of IEDs on your bike may work okay but they will be a long way off from perfect...but they're cheap! Getting a SERTPRO and putting it on a dyno with someone who really knows how to tune bikes is going to get you a near perfect tune (I always believe doing scans while riding real world and using that info rather than data off a dyno will result in a better tune) but it's going to cost you the most money.
So, what's best? Well, it depends on what you want to spend and what result you're looking for.
Bob
#14
04-27-2012, 05:18 AM
Road Master
#15
04-27-2012, 05:30 AM
#18
04-27-2012, 06:18 AM
Agree...I currently run the TFI on my 09 FLHX, but in the process of upgrading to GEN3...need the lights to see tuning because of poor eyesight. TFI is awesome, but can't see the pots very well anymore to adjust. Dallas @ Dobeck provides great discounts...especially for military & public safety/service.
#19
04-27-2012, 09:09 AM
Outstanding HDF Member
If your dealer or anyone else has told you this, they are giving you incorrect info. Look at it in the dealer SE catalog & it will show you that it's not. My dealer and tuner told me about this and explained that when I ever trade my bike to keep SERTPRO tuner & I can use it on any HD bike repeatedly & not to let a salesperson tell me that I have to have a new tuner.
#20
04-27-2012, 09:12 AM
Outstanding HDF Member
32109-08B is the SE pro race tuner(SERTPRO) and IS NOT married to the bike...$459.95