I've seen this kind of info posted over in the non sponsored or filtered forums. Don't know if it helps, its kinda long, but should be accurate:

"I don't think the rubber meets the road the same way for everyone, so tuning and modification tradeoffs gets complicated. Technology is a compromise. There is no one right answer for everyone but I think the TTS kit is close, it has upset the conventions of a year ago, some of which die hard.

The HD factory supplied maps are detuned from optimum performance to meet EPA restrictions and there are several products that will make the bike feel like its running better. But if you just want to ride, there is nothing wrong with riding stock. If you are satisfied with the ride except for heat, simply throw on an XiED type product and ride. Still not satisfied? Well you now need to start defining what would make you satisfied, just how good do you want the tune, how calibrated is your pants seat? Do you simply want raw power and throttle response or are you willing to spend a little more money for mpg or drivability? Does getting a 90% job on cheap give you a thrill?

Tuning the ECU is now easy for the DIY consumer, not a problem like it was a year or two ago. If you want to take on more difficulty, you can look at tuning EFI the same as tuning a carb, only your hands don't smell like fuel afterward.

For the street, you don't need to mess with timing unless you have an issue (rare) or want that last half horsepower. There is no easy way, currently, for the DIY to tune timing... you can easily modify it with something like a TTS, but you really need to know what you are doing to determine what adjustments make sense. Many pros don't know how to tune timing.

If you are OK with what could be a PITA hardware install and the chance of hardware failures and just want to ride well, any of the add on fuelers work OK. The PCV works better as it is a little more sophisticated than a simple fueler but still simple to operate and easy to dynotune. The additional cost is probably worth it to most riders.

If you are OK running software (you found this forum didn't you) the TTS tuning kit is an easy way for the DIY to set the fuel spot on for anywhere from stock to highly modified bikes. It also provides all the timing adjustment you would want if you knew what you were doing. Its flexible in that it covers all the bases from simple canned maps and ride to full adjustments and dyno tunes. You don't have to think about upgrade plans and risk throwing good money after bad. For the guys that just want to plug and play, hook up the computer, pick a map, load it, ride away with a decent tune (similar to a PCV with a canned map). If you want a spot on map for your bike, spend a couple more sweat equity hours doing a VTune session. Ride away confident that the tune is as good if not better than a dyno shop (several DIY have been told by dyno operators that they would not improve the TTS tune). Pocket the dynotune money for coffee. Make an intake or exhaust system change, spend an hour or two VTuning and ride and you are back being spot on. You are not dependent on anyone and sometimes if you want it done right you have to do it yourself. If you want a pro to tune it, they all know and most prefer the TTS kit, so you are covered there. The negatives for some is riding around with a laptop to VTune (you do need to have a laptop handy to VTune), and that the kit stays with the bike, it has no separate resell value but may add to the value of the bike. It is only about $100 more than a PCV not counting the PCV install cost.

The HD tuning products have similar concepts but seem to be relatively poorly executed. They work but independent tuners don't seem to have much confidence in them. They have learned to work around the bugs and what to expect, however.

You will see many post like these:
“I use all the tuning products you mentioned. PCIII/V/SESPT/TTS Mastertune ... amongst tuners who keep themselves up to date and educated about the latest products, there is no debate about the best product and support. TTS wins hands down. SESPT is still suffering from stability issues and "smart tune" does not work as advertised.”

"The TTS does a better job than any of the auto-tuners for less money and much less hassle."

"The TTS looks intimating on paper, but a breeze when its in front of you"

So you made an air cleaner or exhaust modification on a late model bike and want to know if you must tune. The factory ECU and its O2 sensor will dial in the cruise (closed loop) A/F OK, or at least back to factory spec (factory spec is detuned however). There is a limit to the adjustments, but you should see a code if the limit is bumped. During open loop operation such as idle, WOT, and cracking the throttle the ECU is making its best fueling and timing guess based on the stock components plus a little of what it learned from closed loop. Its gonna be a bit leaner than your performance guys would like and long term aggressive riding may cause exhaust valves to be heat stressed, but the casual rider should be just fine. The tune will be far from the optimum riding satisfaction potential, however. To get the most riding satisfaction, you need some kind of aftermarket tuning kit. HD can't sell you what you need to optimize performance, but if you just want to ride nothing wrong with the downloads besides being overpriced. The HD download corrects the open loop if your components match up well with the SE component characteristics, but it is set to the factory detuned values. So the likelyhood of engine damage is less... but the bike will run on the leaner side of what pro tuners like to see.

So yeah, you don't have to remap or add a fueler, you just may not like how the bike runs. Seems you can play with the exhaust as much as you'd like, but toy with the air cleaner and you need to start thinking about the tune.

You may want to ask yourself why add an air cleaner... looks... performance? If it performance, the AC is a waste of money without a custom tune."

 

what did they charge you for the PC-V? they have the fuel moto PC III usb for $269

 

I got it form Fuelmoto for $312 shipped. I hear that there's forum discount. I didn't know about that when I ordered it...

 

Thanks for the tip, SC. But I did a search, a fairly thorough one I think, and I couldn't find a 2010 Service Manual anywhere but from Harley. DennisKirk had one, but he was $60 as well. Figured I'd do business with the dealer since he employs people that live in this town, raise their kids here, buy homes here, etc.

I'll pay 5-6% more to do business locally (not including tax). More than that and I kinda get a little itchy.

Looking under my seat, I think I'm pretty well screwed as far as a Fuelpak or PC V goes. No room. I have Security on my bike, no alarm, but it looks like there's a small security module under the seat taking up some room.

On the PC V, I guess all you gotta do is unplug the O2 sensor and plug in the O2 eliminator -- But you gotta be able to get to it. I have an oil cooler and the rectifier has been moved up. Prolly have to remove both of those. Then I'd have the same fitment problems under the seat unless the PC V is MUCH smaller than the Fuelpak. Don't even know the physical dimensions of either of them.

Seriously, and I mean SERIOUSLY, not impressed with Vance and Dynojet on their instructions. To say they suck would do a dis-service to things that simply suck. Beyond mere suckitude. Dimensions of the module might be a good starting point for both of them. Give us an idea of what we have to deal with.

On the PC V, if you need a dyno run after the install, what's the point? For a buck-and-a-half more, you can get the SERT module and then a discount on the dyno-run-and-tune.

Which is why I was more interested in the Fuelpak. No dyno time. I could probably get the module to fit, but it sure would be nice to know the size of it so I could get an idea of where it might go.

The wiring under my seat is pretty intimidating and there's a lot of it. Some of it fastened down, in fact. They say to fit the Fuelpak module between the ECU and the battery? I think not. My battery case has two outward protruding teats near the top of the frame that appear to be there for -- Something. Have no clue what. But they're also in the way.

I've read where others have put the module under the ECU. (????) OTOH, I could just use the tried and true of method of using a BFH (bigfreakinghammer) to wedge it between the battery and -- Wherever. Or better yet, just let it dangle off the side of the bike and flap in the breeze. At least it would stay nice and cool that way.

 

Not true. You just need to do a lil rearranging. Also, remove the battery and battery box and you'll have plenty of room to work with. It's snug, but with a pcV, quite doable.

As for the SM, being a '10 model (I didn't realize) I s'pose you might be forced to go to the dealer.

 

Wow, you're making this really hard...

 

love my carb

 

seems like you are overthinking it dude....... lots of people have installed these things with no problems whatsoever. Quit worrying about it and just buy the damn thing and install it...... once you get in there you'll figure it out.........or you could just go to the dealer and waste $1100 bucks; you're choice I suppose.

 

If you don't want any dyno time...spend the money and buy an auto-tune setup. Don't waste your $$ on a fuelpak.

Or..just get the dealer stage 1 download for $150. No dyno time....

 

My thoughts exactly...