Another dumb MAP question
#11
After reading the following posted on nightrider.com I think I am just going to install the SE stage 1 A/C and see how it runs!
Do I need to remap my ECM when installing exhaust and air cleaner upgrades to my 07 and later Harley?
Do I need to remap my ECM when installing exhaust and air cleaner upgrades to my 07 and later Harley?
NO, you do not have to do anything. You can put the mufflers/air cleaner upgrades and ride the bike without having to worry about the engine
The simple truth is the 07 and later HD's will run just fine with exhaust/air cleaner upgrades and you do not have to do anything to the ECM at all. Closed loop EFI operation uses feedback from the O2 sensor to maintain a constant AFR, even if changes are made to the exhaust and air cleaner.
The simple truth is the 07 and later HD's will run just fine with exhaust/air cleaner upgrades and you do not have to do anything to the ECM at all. Closed loop EFI operation uses feedback from the O2 sensor to maintain a constant AFR, even if changes are made to the exhaust and air cleaner.
The amount of information about what has to be done '07 and later Harley when installing exhaust/air cleaner upgrades has been the subject of FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt). Riders, Dealerships, Parts Suppliers and Aftermarket Shops have presented old-wives tales, bad technical information, mis-information and in some cases, just plain flat lied about the capabilities of the Delphi closed loop ECMs on these bikes.
Most people hold on to their old ideas about what was required for the early EFI ECM's. Shops and Dealerships never bothered to learn new the new technology. Marketing information did nothing to dispel the differences between the old and new bikes. Sales staff did not know the difference or mis-represented what was required on the new bikes.
There is more independent proof that you do not need to remap the HD EFI when installing mufflers. The March 2009 (page 66) CycleWorld dyno tested a set of slip-on mufflers on an '09 FLH, getting 5% more HP and 9% more torque on a "bone-stock, including EFI mapping" bike. Cycle World is not known as a big Harley cheerleader, so it would be a reasonable assumption that they are not going to do any special favors for MOCO.
Th CW information is right in line with what HD published in the Fall 2006 Enthusiast Magazine showing a 3% HP and 7% torque increase with slightly more restrictive mufflers and air cleaner kit. American Iron Magazine has also published similar articles about "no remap" upgrades involving exhaust/air cleaner changes.
How much information has to be presented to Harley Riders that remapping of the ECM is not required for exhaust/air cleaner upgrades for closed loop bikes? When it can be shown that much of the "gain" in power for bikes remapped with expensive tuning software and piggyback controllers would have occurred without spending $400-$1000, riders need to start thinking about what they are really trying to accomplish on their bikes rather than blindly following the "you must remap just to add exhaust/ac" advice that has been discredited.
Most people hold on to their old ideas about what was required for the early EFI ECM's. Shops and Dealerships never bothered to learn new the new technology. Marketing information did nothing to dispel the differences between the old and new bikes. Sales staff did not know the difference or mis-represented what was required on the new bikes.
There is more independent proof that you do not need to remap the HD EFI when installing mufflers. The March 2009 (page 66) CycleWorld dyno tested a set of slip-on mufflers on an '09 FLH, getting 5% more HP and 9% more torque on a "bone-stock, including EFI mapping" bike. Cycle World is not known as a big Harley cheerleader, so it would be a reasonable assumption that they are not going to do any special favors for MOCO.
Th CW information is right in line with what HD published in the Fall 2006 Enthusiast Magazine showing a 3% HP and 7% torque increase with slightly more restrictive mufflers and air cleaner kit. American Iron Magazine has also published similar articles about "no remap" upgrades involving exhaust/air cleaner changes.
How much information has to be presented to Harley Riders that remapping of the ECM is not required for exhaust/air cleaner upgrades for closed loop bikes? When it can be shown that much of the "gain" in power for bikes remapped with expensive tuning software and piggyback controllers would have occurred without spending $400-$1000, riders need to start thinking about what they are really trying to accomplish on their bikes rather than blindly following the "you must remap just to add exhaust/ac" advice that has been discredited.
#13
Power Commander's web site has the maps listed by configuration. They don't have every possible combination of aftermarket bolt-ons, but you can usually find one that is close. If you buy through Fuelmoto they will email you a map that matches your setup. Once you have the map file, it is very easy to connect your PC to the PC3/5 and update the map.
#15
#16
I looked at their website and gave them a call. I got the PC V for just under $300 and free shipping. I also had them map it for me, I just had to tell them the after market a/c I have and the exhaust that I put on it and they did the rest.
#17
#18
Stock air fuel ratio is lean anyways, I got the re-map so it will run a little more rich. I don't know about you, but I don't want to take the chance and not get a re-map and burn a valve. Plus if that's the biggest waist of $300 I ever spend, I got away lucky.
#19
Yeah but...I have Xied's on it so my AFR is down around 13.6:1 so running lean in closed loop is not a worry. Most of my riding is done in that zone, so I should be OK from what I read.
#20
Bla Bla Bla! Yes the 07 and up bikes will run, lean,but at a loss of power and torque. These engines need backpressure to make power.You open the air flow and your backpressure is gone. And Mine was running pretty ok with Xied's, rush 1.75 and arlen ness BS- no low end torque tho! almost perfect with stage 1 HD download,then the pcV came along ,and i prefer the way it runs with rather than without! I had the pcV off for a couple days and really missed that extra kick!