fuel injector changes on 06s
#151
03-11-2006, 04:53 PM
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RE: fuel injector changes on 06s
ORIGINAL: grizzly
This injector issue.....is it just causeing cold start problems......or is it causeing the surging issue as well? I am only applying common sense here....not technical knowledge, so I may be wrong but...... If the surging only occurs at a certain speed/RPM/Gear (mine is a slight surge, 2nd gear, 20-25 mph....i have no tach) That seams to me to be a MAP issue. If it were an injector thing, then would you not see that problem at the same rpm (throttleposition, regardless of what gear/ speed you were traveling? I can see the cold start issue occuring due to the injectors, with insufficient fuel at cold start/idle. And this would explain why some have the issue and others dont, since we all live in different climates. Furthermore, iftheproblems are beingfixed with a SERT/DFO/ect, using the stock injectors........... Is anyone else seeing it this way? My thinking is that the EPA regs are forcing the certain "MAP numbers" and the injectors are a band aid vice a cure. Beleive me, I wish theinjectors were thecure, since itis free, and an aftermarket EFI controller is at least 300 bucks. Luckily my surging is minimal, and with the factory D/L, slip ons, and factory stock A/C I am running good, and not over lean. But, when I get the cash together I plan to put the SE A/C back on and get a SERT or somthing similar. Unless I see some feedback here saying the injector swap cured the issues of surging, I probably will hold of on the swap. From the numbers just posted, it seems the 25 injectors are as much richer as the new ones are leaner.........
This injector issue.....is it just causeing cold start problems......or is it causeing the surging issue as well? I am only applying common sense here....not technical knowledge, so I may be wrong but...... If the surging only occurs at a certain speed/RPM/Gear (mine is a slight surge, 2nd gear, 20-25 mph....i have no tach) That seams to me to be a MAP issue. If it were an injector thing, then would you not see that problem at the same rpm (throttleposition, regardless of what gear/ speed you were traveling? I can see the cold start issue occuring due to the injectors, with insufficient fuel at cold start/idle. And this would explain why some have the issue and others dont, since we all live in different climates. Furthermore, iftheproblems are beingfixed with a SERT/DFO/ect, using the stock injectors........... Is anyone else seeing it this way? My thinking is that the EPA regs are forcing the certain "MAP numbers" and the injectors are a band aid vice a cure. Beleive me, I wish theinjectors were thecure, since itis free, and an aftermarket EFI controller is at least 300 bucks. Luckily my surging is minimal, and with the factory D/L, slip ons, and factory stock A/C I am running good, and not over lean. But, when I get the cash together I plan to put the SE A/C back on and get a SERT or somthing similar. Unless I see some feedback here saying the injector swap cured the issues of surging, I probably will hold of on the swap. From the numbers just posted, it seems the 25 injectors are as much richer as the new ones are leaner.........
#152
03-11-2006, 07:04 PM
#153
03-14-2006, 12:36 AM
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RE: fuel injector changes on 06s
Funny how the dealers push the SERT & dyno time like a drug dealer pushes crack to a junkie. I had intentions of purchasing a SERT when I finally decide on what pipes to install but now I hate the idea of giving into my stealer. They won't do the injector swap but they are more than willing to suggest a SERT to cure the problem. I guess I'll be riding to a different stealer.
#154
03-16-2006, 02:36 AM
RE: fuel injector changes on 06s
I asked my dealer if my Streetbob needed these new injectors, they say no, then I showed him the HD service bulletin and then they said it only affected the big touring models?
I insisted on getting the new injectors installed, so the bike went in today for them. Now I am confused, the service dept phoned me and said they had installed the 25's and I need to pay for an EFI download or the bike won't run properly ($200) + an SE high flow air filter($200).
I declined saying I wanted to try it 1st before I pay any money, then decide.
Has anyone else been asked to pay for this SE download, do I need it for the bike to perform properly.
I appreciate all the info & advice I have picked up on this forum, anyone know what to do here.
Thanks,
Truenorth.
I insisted on getting the new injectors installed, so the bike went in today for them. Now I am confused, the service dept phoned me and said they had installed the 25's and I need to pay for an EFI download or the bike won't run properly ($200) + an SE high flow air filter($200).
I declined saying I wanted to try it 1st before I pay any money, then decide.
Has anyone else been asked to pay for this SE download, do I need it for the bike to perform properly.
I appreciate all the info & advice I have picked up on this forum, anyone know what to do here.
Thanks,
Truenorth.
#155
03-16-2006, 02:53 AM
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RE: fuel injector changes on 06s
You don't need the download on a stock bike. If you go to the SE air cleaner and SE pipes or slipons than you will or you may run lean. Some have had success without the download but generally speaking, you'll need it. Sounds like the stealer is trying to pull one over on ya. SHOCK!
#157
03-16-2006, 06:32 AM
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RE: fuel injector changes on 06s
but do these new bikes with the 25 degree injectors have a different base map and a different stage 1 map to the 8 degree injectors
so if you already have the stage 1 download for the 8 degree injectors will you need a new/different one for the 25 degree injectors
so if you already have the stage 1 download for the 8 degree injectors will you need a new/different one for the 25 degree injectors
#158
03-16-2006, 07:21 AM
RE: fuel injector changes on 06s
hey blaze.i am still waiting for 25's to arrive .they got confirmation today that they are on there way.bought 203 cam kit to be installed at same time and also bought sert to use after install of 25's +cams and for all future upgrades.currently running s&s slip ons , se a/c(with k&n element) and stage one download.bike runs crap in my opinion.surging up to 50-60kms in second gear,popping and backfiring on deceleration and the odd backfire at start up.my dealer has no probs with helping me but it has been 4 weeks already waiting for 25's and probably another 2.have already had to cancell my dyno tune and will probably have to ride it to dyno tuner in winter the 100 odd kilometers .any ways gonna watch the heavy wieght championship bout on sunday hopefully james toney wins.
#159
03-16-2006, 11:26 AM
RE: fuel injector changes on 06s
Hello guys. Although I have been reading the forun for a while, this is my first post. I recently got a new 06 Dyna Low Rider. It had the low speed and start problems. After a few hundred miles and reading about the injector issues, I went back to the dealer and discussed with him the issue. He said it was new but a known issue and he would order the injectors, no problem. Took 4 days to come in, called me and I took the bike in. Next day bike ready. We talked about what they did. Still a lot of unknowns around what is going on. Seems HD is not too open to the dealer about the details but I has a long talk with the mechanic and the manager. They believed that we should try just the new injectors with no remap to see how the bike runs. They couldn't find any details on a remap specific to the new injectors and didn't believe a reflash would do any good. So after they did a test ride, off I went. Now after 200 or so miles, the bike definitely starts better, no more choking and dying. It has much improved low speed riding, much less surging but still some minor hesitations and the crusing is good but really unchanged. Weather is still cool here in Texas but the bike didn't seem to be running hot before and isn't now. I had no trouble with the dealer getting this done, he said it is no big deal to get the parts and is within his decision to make the changes for a customer. Harley will pay for the change over. Hope this helps with the discussion going on.[/size]
#160
03-16-2006, 01:47 PM
RE: fuel injector changes on 06s
The information below is taken from fuel maps within the the 32107-001E SERT. The 2005 fuel injector flow rate is different from the 2006 8 or 25 degree fuel injectors. There is no difference between the 2006 8 degree and 25 degree fuel injectors, they have the same flow rate. The only difference is the spray pattern. However there are some diffenereces between the 8 degree and 25 degree 2006 maps, in some case leaner and others richer.
Map 141NX104
2006 -25 Degree Fuel Injector gm/sec Setting 3.91
Application: 2006 Shotgun / Shorty Dual Exhaust with O2 Sensors
Configuration: 1450 SE A/C & Mufflers
Map 141NX001
2006 - 8 Degree Fuel Injector gm/sec Setting 3.91
Application: 2006 Shotgun / Shorty Dual Exhaust with O2 Sensors
Configuration: 1450 SE A/C & Mufflers
Map 127HO103
2005 Unkown Spray Patter gm/sec Setting 4.22
Application: 2005 Softail and Dyna
Configuration: 1450 SE A/C & Mufflers
Map 141NX104
2006 -25 Degree Fuel Injector gm/sec Setting 3.91
Application: 2006 Shotgun / Shorty Dual Exhaust with O2 Sensors
Configuration: 1450 SE A/C & Mufflers
Map 141NX001
2006 - 8 Degree Fuel Injector gm/sec Setting 3.91
Application: 2006 Shotgun / Shorty Dual Exhaust with O2 Sensors
Configuration: 1450 SE A/C & Mufflers
Map 127HO103
2005 Unkown Spray Patter gm/sec Setting 4.22
Application: 2005 Softail and Dyna
Configuration: 1450 SE A/C & Mufflers