With all due respect, 14.6 is lean.

 

post up the tune files, lets see the tuning

 

!4.6 is "ok" for a cruise setting...Idle and WOT should be much lower. (richer)
If you don't care about the motor that's in it why bother with getting it dynod to run at it's best? Get a tuner (or not) and put a canned tune in it. This forum is a great source for information but at the end of the day it's your bike and your money. You have a lot of variables going on and that makes direct answers to you question(s) not so easy.

 

Not really following this logic, but we really don't need to.

You'll need the PV anyway (or some other tuner) if you're getting a Dyno tune. Or you'll have to pay a license fee to the tuner to get your bike on theirs.

 

Skip paying for the dyno. One thing you'll read about on the forums is that results vary for dyno produced tunes - being dependent on how competent the place/operator is at using the tool. You could pay a fair chunk of change and get a crap tune.

I would recommend Powervision. FP3 appears to be limited to narrowband O2 sensors only. The PV can use wideband O2 sensors with Target Tune.

My opinion. Regardless of what map you can get from Fuel Moto, you should auto tune. DynoJet didn't have a canned map for my setup and it's possible that Fuel Moto may not have had either (but I never asked). What's important in the maps you may get from Fuel Moto (or elsewhere) is the AFR, Spark, etc. tables. Those tables are already known quantities for best performance for a stock motor and are the same from one unit to the next. How those tables/numbers are derived and what exactly they should be might spark some debate. However, the point being is those maps can be shared and produce the same results from one stock motor to the next.

What's important and different here though is the VE tables. Those tables model the "air" component (in the AFR calculation) for the front and rear cylinders of the motor. That air component is what you are altering when you chose to change intake and exhaust. In my opinion, you should auto tune those and dial them in for your exact setup. Both the PV and FP3 can be used to do this. Both can use the stock narrowbands O2 sensors to do this and produce reasonable results (some may quibble about that assertion). From appearances, only the PV can use widebands (via Target Tune) to auto tune (producing arguably better results). Target Tune also allows you to run full time closed loop with widebands. Should you look into this you may decide you want it and if you have a PV you are already half way there. So, in other words, the PV gives you room for growth.

When I got the Target Tune tune file for my bike, I didn't care what setup - what pipes and exhaust - in might have been for. I only cared that the rest of the tune was right (AFR, Spark, etc.) for my stock motor. Auto tuning took care of my particular choice in pipes and intake.

 

Some have asserted here that no matter what you do you will eventually want to get it tuned on a dyno. I respectfully disagree.

I've read a far amount of reports from those that have used a PV to auto tune their setup and latter went in to have it dyno'ed. What they found was that the PV auto tuned tune was on the money or damn close (particularly TT/wideband auto tunes). What little extra - if any - that they were able to eke out was minor and unlikely to be noticed by the butt dyno.

I can say from personal experience that after auto tuning with PV/TT/Widebands, and now running full time closed loop, that I see no need in taking my bike to a dyno. Compared to how it ran with a stock tune, to what it is today, is impressive.

 

Ummm.... No.

Look around just about anywhere on this topic and you'll find that an AFR of 14.6 is pretty much undesirable anywhere in any operating band. That AFR number only serves to please the EPA.

As an example, my stock tune AFR table was set almost entirely to 14.6 (a number that's also a switch telling the ECM to run closed loop with the narrowbands). The only areas not set to this were 0% TPS, WOT, and RPM's above 5000. My current tune - Target Tune tune file supplied by Fuel Moto - doesn't have a single cell in the AFR table set to 14.6 - or even close to it. My bike ran lean, hot, and like crap with the stock tune. World of difference now that I've auto tuned with PV, run with TT/widebands, and have that Fuel Moto map.

 

Smart thinking that's the decision I made. What they put the motor through just to tune it to get maximum power is more than I'm willing. I use to race Sport-bikes and if I want a super fast mc I sure the hell wouldn't try to make a vtwin ***** to the wall fast, I'd do it with a 1000cc 15k redline Sport-bike.
The price of a FP3 and a PCV is about the same. A PV is close to $500 and I'm not against spending a boat-load of $$ if you've got unlimited disposable income but, many of us just want a fuel manager that's just going to facilitate a stage-1.
I'm partial to a Power Commander because it's served me well in the past and it's within my budget. The FP3 is supposed to have auto-tune capability but, I've spoken to guys who have had issues with it so do your research. You have to make the decision as to what you want from the money you spend.

 

Unless something has changed in recent years, I don't believe this to be the case. Folks have been getting tunes done on dyno's long before there were PV's and like devices on the market. Shop dyno's have their own systems/hardware/software independent of what tuner the bike's owner might have (they would have to). True, a PV can be used for dyno'ing, but it's not required. In fact if I remember my reading right, I've read that the operators have to have additional training to use the PV and that not all shops are setup to handle it. If you look at DJ's website and search for tuners, you'll find that they distinguish between Power Vision Certified Tuning Centers, Power Vision Certified Tuners and Certified Power Vision Dealers. I know one of the shops that I go to has a dyno, but they are not listed as certified PV tuning center.

 

Maybe if your changing jets on a carb... I don't know a tuner of a modern EFI Harley that doesn't either require a tuner married to your ECM or a license fee to use the shops. Maybe the power commander is different, but you still need to buy/own one, a SERT, a TTS or whatever if you want to tune a modern efi Harley.