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So I know this is such a dead horse, but looking for an answer.
I'm going to do an air cleaner, and a 2 into one pipe(start with a DanMoto, for money sake.) My question is, do i HAVE to buy a tuner, or can the dealer do a simple map download to get me by?
I plan on getting a Power-vision, and eventually a TBR, or a Bassani pipe, but when your 21 and on a limited budget for your Street bob, it takes some time.
Thanks gents,
The answer is always the same. Somebody will say install VIED or do a stage 1 download at the dealer... Whatever other band aid. The reality is the bike is already lean from the factory to satisfy EPA emissions requirements. So you throw on a very short open pipe like a Danmoto and a open air cleaner and now you have just made the bike rediculously lean, which then leads to heat, pinging, downshift pops, oil consumption...etc.
Why do that to your bike, as you show in your photo it's a very nice bike not some ratted out sled.
Yes you are broke and 21 and we all have been there but man look for at least a used Powercommander 5 and throw a canned map into the bike. Either that or save up for the tuner then do it all at once.
If you don't you'll turn your new pipe purple or blister the black. Also by your sig line you effectively live on the face of the sun so I think your bike is already running hotter than most.
Finally, they don't sound very healthy anyway with just a pipe and an air cleaner without adding fuel, so the purpose is defeated if you are looking for some healthy sound.
The stock computer on the bike will probably auto-tune to a pipe and air cleaner just fine. I'm running two bikes this way. And American Iron magazine has done many "stage one" type modifications on Harleys, tested them on a dyno, and concluded that tuning changes weren't needed.
Stuff like what Lama stated below is largely outdated, left over from the carburetor era, before electronic engine management was as sophisticated as it is today.
Originally Posted by Lama
So you throw on a very short open pipe like a Danmoto and a open air cleaner and now you have just made the bike rediculously lean, which then leads to heat, pinging, downshift pops, oil consumption...etc.
Yes, the bike may "downshift pop" with short pipes, but that's not an indication of a fueling problem.
The stock computer on the bike will probably auto-tune to a pipe and air cleaner just fine. I'm running two bikes this way. And American Iron magazine has done many "stage one" type modifications on Harleys, tested them on a dyno, and concluded that tuning changes weren't needed.
Stuff like what Lama stated below is largely outdated, left over from the carburetor era, before electronic engine management was as sophisticated as it is today.
Yes, the bike may "downshift pop" with short pipes, but that's not an indication of a fueling problem.
You really are giving bad advice and appear to have no clue how the Delphi EFI system works on a Harley.
What year is your bike? My 2006 Bob wouldn't tune itself...the O2 sensors are not wide band and the system is just not that sophisticated.
You can probably get by with changing exhaust and leaving stock filter, but once you add more air in, you will need to compensate...or at least you should compensate.
You can probably get by with changing exhaust and leaving stock filter, but once you add more air in, you will need to compensate...or at least you should compensate.
+1 as long as you don't change the amount of air coming in. You can get away with a pipe change.
Have you thought about just changing the mufflers
What year is your bike? My 2006 Bob wouldn't tune itself...the O2 sensors are not wide band and the system is just not that sophisticated.
You can probably get by with changing exhaust and leaving stock filter, but once you add more air in, you will need to compensate...or at least you should compensate.
One of mine is also a 2006 Dyna.
True, the stock ECM doesn't have nearly the auto-tuning capabilities of the Thundermax, but it will self-adjust enough, even with the narrow-band sensors, to accommodate small changes like an intake + exhaust pretty well.
Think of it this way: The airflow and air density changes from changing the intake and exhaust, are less than the variations one can get from temperature and altitude changes, which the engine control system is designed to sense and adjust for.
Last edited by Warp Factor; 06-25-2015 at 12:48 PM.
One of mine is also 2006 Dyna.
True, the stock ECM doesn't have nearly the auto-tuning capabilities of the Thundermax, but it will self-adjust enough, even with the narrow-band sensors, to accommodate small changes like an intake + exhaust pretty well.
Think of it this way: The airflow changes from an intake and exhaust change are less than the variation one can get from temperature and altitude changes, which the engine control system is designed to sense and adjust for.
The stock ECM Map and VE tables thereof are based on the stock configuration of the engine combination. It's ability to adjust to meet target AFR for a particular VE cell range is limited. Once you modify the stock setup the VE tables are no longer effective to adjust AFR outside its preset target.
If we are talking simple slip-ons, then yes the stock VE tables *may* be able a to serve the engine, but a 2-1 pipe no way.
the ecm closed loop air/fuel ratios can adjust up to .3 or .4 either direction if I remember correctly to compensate for atmosphere or other changes. At WOT for instance, the ecm will richen the tables considerably to compensate. The debate to retune or not will carry on..a lot depends on the type of mods changed as stated already.
06-24-2015, 11:09 PM
Exhuast/tuning dead horse....
