Focal?
#31
06-09-2016, 07:59 AM
Ok I have a definitive for you now. I was able to fix/equal my front and rear channels(at least very close now) through adjusting the HPF and the focal tweeter adjustments on the crossovers, I'll get into more detail on another thread.
But to answer your question, with two identical sets of KRC's in the fairing and lowers running off of a bt4180 NOT in parallel with anything(rear pods not wired into the system). This is the most power these speakers can get from this amp at least 150 per speaker. Testing was done with the Volume set at 14 out of 17, fairing wired to front and lower wired to rear, fade set in the middle and fading to front(fairing) only as fast as it will fade;
In the parking up to 50 mph you want them(lowers). They give a rich full sound that you miss when the lowers fade out.
At 60 you can tell they were there but no big deal when they fade out.
At 70+ with volume up to 15(momentarily) they are gone, nothing, zilch! Very disappointed as that's where I am trying to tune my system. I don't go to bike nights and or "pimp the parking lot" lol(stole that from someone, forgot who).
Really thinking about putting lesser sq speakers down there now as it's basically expensive fill sound even in the parking lot. The lowers sound like crap by themselves at ear level, if you put your head at seat level they sound just like the fairing but sit at riding level and they sound terrible by them selves.
I was very surprised, really thought they did more at highway speed. I know that when riding solo I can sometimes hear the rear pods(BT 6.5's) that were wired in parallel with the lowers, I'm going to have to do a test with them next. Maybe I'll test the BT6.5's then swap them with the lowers and see how the KRC's do back there, I was going to put Moto 602's back there but I'll try these first.
But to answer your question, with two identical sets of KRC's in the fairing and lowers running off of a bt4180 NOT in parallel with anything(rear pods not wired into the system). This is the most power these speakers can get from this amp at least 150 per speaker. Testing was done with the Volume set at 14 out of 17, fairing wired to front and lower wired to rear, fade set in the middle and fading to front(fairing) only as fast as it will fade;
In the parking up to 50 mph you want them(lowers). They give a rich full sound that you miss when the lowers fade out.
At 60 you can tell they were there but no big deal when they fade out.
At 70+ with volume up to 15(momentarily) they are gone, nothing, zilch! Very disappointed as that's where I am trying to tune my system. I don't go to bike nights and or "pimp the parking lot" lol(stole that from someone, forgot who).
Really thinking about putting lesser sq speakers down there now as it's basically expensive fill sound even in the parking lot. The lowers sound like crap by themselves at ear level, if you put your head at seat level they sound just like the fairing but sit at riding level and they sound terrible by them selves.
I was very surprised, really thought they did more at highway speed. I know that when riding solo I can sometimes hear the rear pods(BT 6.5's) that were wired in parallel with the lowers, I'm going to have to do a test with them next. Maybe I'll test the BT6.5's then swap them with the lowers and see how the KRC's do back there, I was going to put Moto 602's back there but I'll try these first.
What I have found with the Mille's in the lower on the SG they sound very good parked and at slower speeds. Between 50-60 they really start to fade and past 60 they become background noise. Still better than having only two speaker up front.
When I had the BT6.5's in the Ultra TP pods they sounded way to bright. When I put them in the SG lower and liked them much better, not nearly as bright. So I think you are on the right track by moving the BT6.5's to the lowers and the KRC's to the TP pods and run them in parallel.
With the TP pods being vented the KRC's should sound a lot better than in the lowers. I think the KRC really need more air moment to preform well.
Let is know how it all works out.
#32
06-09-2016, 09:41 AM
Great feedback greatsteaks. You know at least you powered them to their potential and that says a lot. I hear about so many guys trying to push speakers that need 125-150 rms with 80 watts and they are clueless to the potential they are missing out on. You know you could consider some pro audio Hertz or equivalent in the lowers that have a high sensitivity. Those may really keep up at the 70+ speeds and you don't need the tweeter there anyway. Just give some midbass and vocal, guitar,etc.
#33
06-09-2016, 11:05 AM
Originally Posted by Bertk
The Hertz SPL SV 165.1 Mid-Range Drivers might be a good choice to get more volume from the lowers.
Thinking this might be a very good decoder ring for a few locations on the sled. Gonna pay close attention to this as the voices in my head r getting a little fired up. Shifting a few things up in the weeks to come.
T.
#34
06-09-2016, 11:59 AM
) it's part of a COMPLETE package vs. get more volume from your lowers with speaker xyz or get more bass from your lowers from xyz. It's NOT about a specific speaker or brand. For example...do you need more bass from your lowers if you are running a tourpack subwoofer? Probably not. So think in terms of your entire bike.SPL's play very loud, they also play in a very limited bandwith....off the top of my head it's 100hz - 10,000hz. So to say you will get more "volume" is absolutely correct but at 80mph even that increased volume with a decreased bandwith is limited background noise. Could it be complimentary...quite possibly but I can assure you that focals in the fairing, and SPL's in the lowers (and nothing else) parked will sound like crap....and just noise.
If I'm Steaks I leave it alone. It is what it is with lowers, considering you already have $700 speakers a foot from your face! If I wanted to show off a little, I'd put the JM tray, a second amp and put the motos in the back to have that "balance" and let the focals rip in the front off the 4180. Only if you are considering dropping more cash into the system, because if you run the SPL's they would need their own channel anyways....I would never run my fairing and tourpak pods in parallel.
Last edited by haze324; 06-09-2016 at 12:02 PM.
#35
06-09-2016, 12:28 PM
Road Master
Originally Posted by haze324
So I posted recently that speakers for the most part are selected based on how your bike sounds parked. Like we've said in other posts the vids are the bike sitting there and not moving. We've had folks pick speakers for the tourpack pods because it was good bass and provided balance, or in the lowers the motos "hit hard" we've posted ---- all very true. Now has anyone here listened to a set of Hertz SPL's in combination with a coaxial? Do you still get the same balance? Then consider the bikes that shine that are using these types of speakers (and sound good...also parked!! ) it's part of a COMPLETE package vs. get more volume from your lowers with speaker xyz or get more bass from your lowers from xyz. It's NOT about a specific speaker or brand. For example...do you need more bass from your lowers if you are running a tourpack subwoofer? Probably not. So think in terms of your entire bike.
SPL's play very loud, they also play in a very limited bandwith....off the top of my head it's 100hz - 10,000hz. So to say you will get more "volume" is absolutely correct but at 80mph even that increased volume with a decreased bandwith is limited background noise. Could it be complimentary...quite possibly but I can assure you that focals in the fairing, and SPL's in the lowers (and nothing else) parked will sound like crap....and just noise.
If I'm Steaks I leave it alone. It is what it is with lowers, considering you already have $700 speakers a foot from your face! If I wanted to show off a little, I'd put the JM tray, a second amp and put the motos in the back to have that "balance" and let the focals rip in the front off the 4180. Only if you are considering dropping more cash into the system, because if you run the SPL's they would need their own channel anyways....I would never run my fairing and tourpak pods in parallel.
) it's part of a COMPLETE package vs. get more volume from your lowers with speaker xyz or get more bass from your lowers from xyz. It's NOT about a specific speaker or brand. For example...do you need more bass from your lowers if you are running a tourpack subwoofer? Probably not. So think in terms of your entire bike.SPL's play very loud, they also play in a very limited bandwith....off the top of my head it's 100hz - 10,000hz. So to say you will get more "volume" is absolutely correct but at 80mph even that increased volume with a decreased bandwith is limited background noise. Could it be complimentary...quite possibly but I can assure you that focals in the fairing, and SPL's in the lowers (and nothing else) parked will sound like crap....and just noise.
If I'm Steaks I leave it alone. It is what it is with lowers, considering you already have $700 speakers a foot from your face! If I wanted to show off a little, I'd put the JM tray, a second amp and put the motos in the back to have that "balance" and let the focals rip in the front off the 4180. Only if you are considering dropping more cash into the system, because if you run the SPL's they would need their own channel anyways....I would never run my fairing and tourpak pods in parallel.
#37
06-09-2016, 01:30 PM
AS much of a pain in the *** it was putting it together and making it fit, when I hear this stuff I am glad I went big on front stage. I have second guessed that so much lately that this situation gives me the reassurance to not deviate from my original plan. I'm with steaks though. Parked my stuff is hardly up other than to show what it sounds like as I do not have and wont buy a go pro for riding my bike. So is the big moral to the story here lowers are worthless after 60 then no matter the speaker?
#38
06-09-2016, 03:43 PM
Before u guys start tearing shix out of your sleds, how much time r u spending above 60?
Half way to Austin from H-Town with a big group and stopped cause the low beer light is flashing, but just checked my computer for average speed and it was 53 over 110 miles of riding. I'm more of a social rider so gonna target the speeds that I spend most of my time riding.
Yet another variable in this very dynamic thing called sled audio.
T.
Half way to Austin from H-Town with a big group and stopped cause the low beer light is flashing, but just checked my computer for average speed and it was 53 over 110 miles of riding. I'm more of a social rider so gonna target the speeds that I spend most of my time riding.
Yet another variable in this very dynamic thing called sled audio.
T.
#39
06-09-2016, 04:13 PM
So I posted recently that speakers for the most part are selected based on how your bike sounds parked. Like we've said in other posts the vids are the bike sitting there and not moving. We've had folks pick speakers for the tourpack pods because it was good bass and provided balance, or in the lowers the motos "hit hard" we've posted ---- all very true. Now has anyone here listened to a set of Hertz SPL's in combination with a coaxial? Do you still get the same balance? Then consider the bikes that shine that are using these types of speakers (and sound good...also parked!! ) it's part of a COMPLETE package vs. get more volume from your lowers with speaker xyz or get more bass from your lowers from xyz. It's NOT about a specific speaker or brand. For example...do you need more bass from your lowers if you are running a tourpack subwoofer? Probably not. So think in terms of your entire bike.
SPL's play very loud, they also play in a very limited bandwith....off the top of my head it's 100hz - 10,000hz. So to say you will get more "volume" is absolutely correct but at 80mph even that increased volume with a decreased bandwith is limited background noise. Could it be complimentary...quite possibly but I can assure you that focals in the fairing, and SPL's in the lowers (and nothing else) parked will sound like crap....and just noise.
) it's part of a COMPLETE package vs. get more volume from your lowers with speaker xyz or get more bass from your lowers from xyz. It's NOT about a specific speaker or brand. For example...do you need more bass from your lowers if you are running a tourpack subwoofer? Probably not. So think in terms of your entire bike.SPL's play very loud, they also play in a very limited bandwith....off the top of my head it's 100hz - 10,000hz. So to say you will get more "volume" is absolutely correct but at 80mph even that increased volume with a decreased bandwith is limited background noise. Could it be complimentary...quite possibly but I can assure you that focals in the fairing, and SPL's in the lowers (and nothing else) parked will sound like crap....and just noise.
Just thinking out loud in terms of a complete package. From the little I know the coaxails try to deliver a full range of freq's. The SPL's will deliver mid-range and volume. So I need to ask myself whats missing from this package, and it's Bass. And depending on the coaxial/tweeters it could be upper mids and highs also. So the next step would be to add lid/bag speakers for bass/thump.
On my SG with the KRC's in the fairing and Mille's in the lowers I have everything I need when parked or slower speed. What's missing is volume from the lowers at speed. When I go to the next phase to add lids I was thinking of putting SPL's in the lower. So the KRC's would cover the Highs, the SPL's would add more mids, upper bass and volume. Then add a pair of 6x9's in the lids for bass powered by a small amp that would hopefully fit in the fairing. Does this sound like a plan worth considering?
If I'm Steaks I leave it alone. It is what it is with lowers, considering you already have $700 speakers a foot from your face! If I wanted to show off a little, I'd put the JM tray, a second amp and put the motos in the back to have that "balance" and let the focals rip in the front off the 4180. Only if you are considering dropping more cash into the system, because if you run the SPL's they would need their own channel anyways....I would never run my fairing and tourpak pods in parallel.
#40
06-09-2016, 06:25 PM
Road Master
Well I didn't leave thinks alone, lol. I put the KRC's from the lowers into the rear pods 
again, nothing in parallel, full power from a 4180 amp and went for a ride.
I was surprised again thinking the rear pods didn't do much at speed, well they do a hell of a lot more then they do in the lowers!!(remember this is solo not two up) I could tell they weren't there when I faded them out all the way to 75mph(couldn't go any faster where I rode). At that speed they were more fill then sq but at lower speeds you want them AND parked they sound great even alone unlike the lowers. If I didn't already have them I would not waste any $$ on lowers if your looking for sound at any speed, they look cool and ad some fill sound but not worth it in my opinion. Keep in mind that my bike is loud at idle so as soon as I start it sq starts to go out the window.
So this is what I have learned:
Lower fairing speakers suck, lol
One set of quality speakers in the fairing and a good amp is better then two sets of quality speakers running in parallel off of a quality amp.
Two sets of quality speakers running off a quality 4 channel amp is better then 6 off the same amp.
Build your system around your fairing speakers at speed, I'm pretty sure that if you tune your system to sound as good as it can at highway speed with just your fairing speakers and amp by themselves, THEN build around it to sound as good as it can parked with additional speakers and amps. I don't think you can hurt your highway speed sound with anything you throw around them(as long as you don't touch them), and I don't think your fairing speakers being tuned for speed will hurt the other 4-6 other speakers tuned for parked.
My bike sounds as sick as it ever has at speed and parked(really sicker parked)(not saying it can't sound better and still could use some more bass) running with 4 speakers(none in the lowers) then it did with 6.
Next will be another 4 channel amp to run the lowers and lids(or maybe just a 2 channel amp for the lids) and of course lids and speakers but not till the snow flies around here. Think for now I'm going to just throw some grill covers over the lowers just for looks, lol.
again, nothing in parallel, full power from a 4180 amp and went for a ride.I was surprised again thinking the rear pods didn't do much at speed, well they do a hell of a lot more then they do in the lowers!!(remember this is solo not two up) I could tell they weren't there when I faded them out all the way to 75mph(couldn't go any faster where I rode). At that speed they were more fill then sq but at lower speeds you want them AND parked they sound great even alone unlike the lowers. If I didn't already have them I would not waste any $$ on lowers if your looking for sound at any speed, they look cool and ad some fill sound but not worth it in my opinion. Keep in mind that my bike is loud at idle so as soon as I start it sq starts to go out the window.
So this is what I have learned:
Lower fairing speakers suck, lol
One set of quality speakers in the fairing and a good amp is better then two sets of quality speakers running in parallel off of a quality amp.
Two sets of quality speakers running off a quality 4 channel amp is better then 6 off the same amp.
Build your system around your fairing speakers at speed, I'm pretty sure that if you tune your system to sound as good as it can at highway speed with just your fairing speakers and amp by themselves, THEN build around it to sound as good as it can parked with additional speakers and amps. I don't think you can hurt your highway speed sound with anything you throw around them(as long as you don't touch them), and I don't think your fairing speakers being tuned for speed will hurt the other 4-6 other speakers tuned for parked.
My bike sounds as sick as it ever has at speed and parked(really sicker parked)(not saying it can't sound better and still could use some more bass) running with 4 speakers(none in the lowers) then it did with 6.
Next will be another 4 channel amp to run the lowers and lids(or maybe just a 2 channel amp for the lids) and of course lids and speakers but not till the snow flies around here. Think for now I'm going to just throw some grill covers over the lowers just for looks, lol.