Ok so I've have both these amps and I think there is a place in the HD audio world for both of them. Not going to argue which one is better than the other, but I'd like to share some thoughts on each amp as I don't think there is a "winner" per say with regard to either. A while back I had a stockpile of amps I was circulating thru my fairing chasing the best sound. In this category of amps I had:

Arc 125.4 - 400.00 75wx4 @4ohm
Arc 600.4 - 649.00 150w4@ 4ohm
BT 4180 - 600.00 160x4 @4ohm (based on our bench test)
FG T400X4AD - 499.00 140wx4 @4ohm (based on PASMAG bench test)
SS PN4.1000D 150.00 140wx4 @4ohm (based on our bench test).

These were 4 channel amps that fit in the fairing. I've had the Diamond Audio 2 but not the 4 channel version. So take the first one the 125.4 it's only 75w but has terrific sound quality in the garage. Take it out on the road and it wasn't loud enough. This for an amp that cost 400 bucks and known for excellent SQ. Take the PN4.1000D with the same speakers and you'll hear it just fine on the road.

Now take the other amps that I would classify as being a lot closer with power output here were my thoughts based on "sound" alone.

Arc 600.4 - easily the loudest and most crystal clear sound. wasn't warm sounding though.
T400X4AD - the least loudest of them, had really good SQ, really good warm/rich sound to it
BT4180 - good combination of both warm and SQ, comparable volume to the T400...maybe a tad louder
SS 1000D - loud, super warm sounding, least SQ of the batch

So based on sound alone and with regard to total volume (and this is with my gains set with a SMD DD-1 and EQ set with an RTA....so no distortion) the PN4.1000D can hang volume wise with amps 5 times it's price. Is it as crystal clear sounding --- nope, but that's not to say you don't get good sound for 150.00. Going ONLY on sound I had a good friend who swears by Hertz SPL speakers and Arc Audio amps had me try some speakers that he said "bro, these things sound really really close to my SPL's for almost nothing". Sure enough at 50.00 a speaker these things blew away my DD's and sound just like the SPL's (he's asked me not to share, so that's for him to reveal and take the credit). But that's just "sound". The speaker baskets were made with much heavier material, the terminal posts were cheaply attached, etc. So there are certain things you get for your money that are not sound. Warranty being one of them and the lifetime warranty by Biketronics is something that factors into the value of a purchase.

So getting back to these two specific amps a 499.00 Fosgate and a 150.00 Soundstream. Many of the post we receive here are from average joe rider who is only going off of his stock system as the baseline to improve from, has no clue what a Hertz, JL Audio, much less Focal is.....and a significant amount are always on a tight budget. So at 499.00 for the amp, I'd hope you don't connect 99.00 speakers to it. The Mille's are around 300 bucks. At fairing and lowers thats 1100.00 and you still haven't touched the radio, handcontrols etc. For some guys who get the bug (I see you reading this) yes for sure it's worth it. For a guy who has less than that to work with the 1000D + Kappa set sounds pretty damn good (to them and to my ears).

So the real question is ---- is it worth it? I think if you are using high end speakers then yes, possibly. (I've had the Arc Moto TWICE and sold it both times in less than a week and that's the most expensive and loudest one in the group, so perhaps not). If you are using budget speakers chances are at 80mph you won't be able to tell the difference and there's been enough guys for the past few years using the Kappas for us to trust their reliability and so far no known issues with the PN4.1000D being reported.

I've got an extra 1000D laying around if you wanna check it out.


Also for the record -- I currently have a T400X4AD in my fairing

 

Man --- you got more than 1000.00 in ONE bag!!!!!

 

Good conversation.....

 

I'm so thankful for this forum, I have learned so much from you guys

I can see both sides of this, I think the majority of people here are looking for an improvement over stock and not an audiophile system.

Then there are some others that aren't satisfied and need to try and get the best sound quality they can.

I'm just glad I can read through all these posts and find information for both sides of the fence so I can make a decision on my needs (and budget).

I can tell you that in the future I will be upgrading mine and the amp will be the first thing I look at. I'm not unhappy with my setup but it was based on what I was comfortable spending on my first foray into the audio world

With threads like this, I can make decisions based on my needs and budget.

Again, I thank you all for taking the time to discuss all this.

 

Dam it Haze! I was setting him up for the details! And you had to go ruin all the fun!! I like this guy Mark!

 

I'm not afraid to pony up $$$ at all. Where are we doing this and when? How much should I carry in my suit case and who's judging this??? I hope not you.. SO, your system blows mine away means you are saying you can retain SQ at speed now??? I'm lost as to what your opinion is...

And you don't just play your stereo at speed..you play it in 45 mph traffic probably more than at 75 mph. There the SQ is completely noticeable. I don't use $700-$800 amps that often. The amps I use average in the $400-$500 range. Large wattage amps are also less efficient, so i'd rather add a couple smaller amps than one large one. I understand there are multiple factors that determine SQ of a system and stated several of them in the post you quoted.... It seems like you are getting jumpy b/c I disagree with you. The guy asked my opinion...I gave it...even asked for where your opinion was formed to see if you knew something I didn't see in the testing and now we are making bets on an audio system that you claim cost $1000 but turns out it's more than that in a later post. So, if you can make a $500 system sound like a $3000 system...why do you have $1000 worth of gear in one bag??

I'm starting to get really confused as to where the aggression is coming from.

 

Here is my opinion in short, based on not just my ears, but the science as I understand it.

You take a good clean signal amp and put them to OK speakers... the speakers will sound better.

You take a low level not so clean signal amp and stick it to slightly better speakers...they will not sound as good as the slightly lesser grade speakers and clearer amp.

This is the basis for my opinion...Spending more money to move from the Kappas to the Focals he's looking at should not be where he spends his money to get a better sound...b/c the amp will not help either of them in clarity. On the flip side....invest in a better amp and you will get more clarity. And when you want to upgrade again later...add the better speakers. I asked how much he was willing to invest before I made my opinion, and he said he would spend up to $500. So, I gave him my logical opinion that was in his price range. Had he said I only want to spend another $100....I'd have told him to save it and spend it on beer!!!!

 

OK..this is getting good... I didn't realize the T400X put out 140 rms per channel. The Rockford amps always seem underrated, better than being overrated I guess. lol
Question for Mark, I know Haze and Gan have had all these amps on their bike and logged miles listening to them. Have you personally had the Arc 600, BT 4180 and SS 1000D on your bike (or bikes) with a variety of speakers, for hrs on the road. Your comment about spending more time listening to your stereo in traffic at 45 mph is not quite accurate, at least for most of the riders I know. Usually I'm on back road going 60 mph when I really crank my stereo up. There is also the fact after a long ride it seems on the way home with some amps I have had (SS 520, Arc 2 channel 125) it is harder to hear your tunes. Perhaps ear fatigue or the amps getting hot and losing power!

 

As a rule I don't blast my stereo in 45 mph traffic. Only on the highway. I would never have a problem with you or anyone else disagreeing with me. At the end of the day it's just two opinions. I live and breath this stuff everyday. But that doesn't mean I know everything there is to know about audio on a bike. I learn from the guys here everyday. Conversely, If I can share my experience with this stuff to help a fellow forum member out. It's all good. That's what I do. I help people. Just like a good friend of mine helped me some years ago. I'm just paying it forward bro. That's my whole reason for being here. My 3000 vs. 1000 scenario was rhetorical. Simply to make a point. I'm too old to actually ride or trailer my bike to Tampa to have a di*k measuring contest. lol

Haze pretty much laid it out with his post. Thank God because I don't feel like typing that much today. Anyway, Welcome to the forum Mark! From my initial observations you have the potential to be a huge asset on this forum if you hang around long enough.

My best advice to you my friend if you plan on hanging around is to get to know these guys. There are some great guys here with plenty knowlege. Contrary to popular belief neither one of us knows it all.

 

Hey I saw what you did there!!!!!