Which motorcycle lift?
#31
07-10-2024 | 09:57 PM
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Joined: Nov 2012
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From: USA
Jim,
You'd mentioned you didn't want to modify the Blue jack in case of a warranty claim. So instead of drilling and using a pin, you could use a longer bolt on one or two of the rollers and add two chain link segments with a grab hook on each. Then drape a longer section of chain over the top of the center post, use the grab hooks, and lower down onto the chains. No modifications, no warranty issues.
The standard motorcycle jacks like the OTC one there wiggle quite a bit, especially going up. It really disconcerts some folk. I expect, but do not know for certain, that the Blue jack will be more stable, both going up and down, and when holding the bike up. It's certainly going to be more stable on its base owing to its larger footprint.
I did not factor in cost at all in my considerations. Triple the price is not inconsequential.
No, it's not air in the jacks like the OTC that make them interesting to lower, it's inherent in the valve design controlled by the foot valve. It only has two positions, wide open and throttled. When the foot pedal is slightly pressed, the valve is fully open, and the bike on the jack will drop like the proverbial rock. You need to press the foot pedal all the way down to restrict the flow and slow the speed it comes down. Not that it's a very slow speed mind you. There is no throttling of the rate of descent like there is with a conventional automotive jack. You should be able to replace the valve with an automotive type, but you probably don't want to give up the foot control when lowering. The foot pedal type, while unpleasant, does allow you to be fully upright and having your hands on the bike as it comes down. And that you do want, hands on the bike. Personally, I stop mine once, before it hits the ground, let it re-stabilize for a second or two, and then drop it the last 2-3 inches all the way down. That's just me. However, understand that if you don't have hands on the bike when the jack goes all the way down, it's a 50/50 thing which way the bike is going to tip over. Personally, I prefer it to tip over onto the kickstand side. And make sure you've got the kickstand deployed before you lower the bike down.
I chose years ago a Harbor Freight jack, virtually identical to the OTC jack you are looking at. Later, I added a Harbor Freight lift table. And finally I've added a scissor lift for the HF lift table. I tend to use the HF lift table for mechanical work on the bike. The HF jack has been retired for mostly tire changes. Yes, I could use straps and the scissor lift on the lift table for tires, but I really don't like that. Perhaps in my next shop I'll have chain falls from the ceiling for things like tire changes on the lift table, where I can basically hang the bike from the shock mounts and triple tree. Tire changes one at a time aren't overly exciting, but doing them both at the same time, that gets interesting and entertaining, and not necessarily in a good way.
You'd mentioned you didn't want to modify the Blue jack in case of a warranty claim. So instead of drilling and using a pin, you could use a longer bolt on one or two of the rollers and add two chain link segments with a grab hook on each. Then drape a longer section of chain over the top of the center post, use the grab hooks, and lower down onto the chains. No modifications, no warranty issues.
The standard motorcycle jacks like the OTC one there wiggle quite a bit, especially going up. It really disconcerts some folk. I expect, but do not know for certain, that the Blue jack will be more stable, both going up and down, and when holding the bike up. It's certainly going to be more stable on its base owing to its larger footprint.
I did not factor in cost at all in my considerations. Triple the price is not inconsequential.
No, it's not air in the jacks like the OTC that make them interesting to lower, it's inherent in the valve design controlled by the foot valve. It only has two positions, wide open and throttled. When the foot pedal is slightly pressed, the valve is fully open, and the bike on the jack will drop like the proverbial rock. You need to press the foot pedal all the way down to restrict the flow and slow the speed it comes down. Not that it's a very slow speed mind you. There is no throttling of the rate of descent like there is with a conventional automotive jack. You should be able to replace the valve with an automotive type, but you probably don't want to give up the foot control when lowering. The foot pedal type, while unpleasant, does allow you to be fully upright and having your hands on the bike as it comes down. And that you do want, hands on the bike. Personally, I stop mine once, before it hits the ground, let it re-stabilize for a second or two, and then drop it the last 2-3 inches all the way down. That's just me. However, understand that if you don't have hands on the bike when the jack goes all the way down, it's a 50/50 thing which way the bike is going to tip over. Personally, I prefer it to tip over onto the kickstand side. And make sure you've got the kickstand deployed before you lower the bike down.
I chose years ago a Harbor Freight jack, virtually identical to the OTC jack you are looking at. Later, I added a Harbor Freight lift table. And finally I've added a scissor lift for the HF lift table. I tend to use the HF lift table for mechanical work on the bike. The HF jack has been retired for mostly tire changes. Yes, I could use straps and the scissor lift on the lift table for tires, but I really don't like that. Perhaps in my next shop I'll have chain falls from the ceiling for things like tire changes on the lift table, where I can basically hang the bike from the shock mounts and triple tree. Tire changes one at a time aren't overly exciting, but doing them both at the same time, that gets interesting and entertaining, and not necessarily in a good way.
#32
07-10-2024 | 10:25 PM
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From: Lethbridge, Alberta Canada
Jim G
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#33
07-10-2024 | 10:38 PM
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From: Lethbridge, Alberta Canada
Jim,
You'd mentioned you didn't want to modify the Blue jack in case of a warranty claim. So instead of drilling and using a pin, you could use a longer bolt on one or two of the rollers and add two chain link segments with a grab hook on each. Then drape a longer section of chain over the top of the center post, use the grab hooks, and lower down onto the chains. No modifications, no warranty issues.
The standard motorcycle jacks like the OTC one there wiggle quite a bit, especially going up. It really disconcerts some folk. I expect, but do not know for certain, that the Blue jack will be more stable, both going up and down, and when holding the bike up. It's certainly going to be more stable on its base owing to its larger footprint.
I did not factor in cost at all in my considerations. Triple the price is not inconsequential.
No, it's not air in the jacks like the OTC that make them interesting to lower, it's inherent in the valve design controlled by the foot valve. It only has two positions, wide open and throttled. When the foot pedal is slightly pressed, the valve is fully open, and the bike on the jack will drop like the proverbial rock. You need to press the foot pedal all the way down to restrict the flow and slow the speed it comes down. Not that it's a very slow speed mind you. There is no throttling of the rate of descent like there is with a conventional automotive jack. You should be able to replace the valve with an automotive type, but you probably don't want to give up the foot control when lowering. The foot pedal type, while unpleasant, does allow you to be fully upright and having your hands on the bike as it comes down. And that you do want, hands on the bike. Personally, I stop mine once, before it hits the ground, let it re-stabilize for a second or two, and then drop it the last 2-3 inches all the way down. That's just me. However, understand that if you don't have hands on the bike when the jack goes all the way down, it's a 50/50 thing which way the bike is going to tip over. Personally, I prefer it to tip over onto the kickstand side. And make sure you've got the kickstand deployed before you lower the bike down.
I chose years ago a Harbor Freight jack, virtually identical to the OTC jack you are looking at. Later, I added a Harbor Freight lift table. And finally I've added a scissor lift for the HF lift table. I tend to use the HF lift table for mechanical work on the bike. The HF jack has been retired for mostly tire changes. Yes, I could use straps and the scissor lift on the lift table for tires, but I really don't like that. Perhaps in my next shop I'll have chain falls from the ceiling for things like tire changes on the lift table, where I can basically hang the bike from the shock mounts and triple tree. Tire changes one at a time aren't overly exciting, but doing them both at the same time, that gets interesting and entertaining, and not necessarily in a good way.
You'd mentioned you didn't want to modify the Blue jack in case of a warranty claim. So instead of drilling and using a pin, you could use a longer bolt on one or two of the rollers and add two chain link segments with a grab hook on each. Then drape a longer section of chain over the top of the center post, use the grab hooks, and lower down onto the chains. No modifications, no warranty issues.
The standard motorcycle jacks like the OTC one there wiggle quite a bit, especially going up. It really disconcerts some folk. I expect, but do not know for certain, that the Blue jack will be more stable, both going up and down, and when holding the bike up. It's certainly going to be more stable on its base owing to its larger footprint.
I did not factor in cost at all in my considerations. Triple the price is not inconsequential.
No, it's not air in the jacks like the OTC that make them interesting to lower, it's inherent in the valve design controlled by the foot valve. It only has two positions, wide open and throttled. When the foot pedal is slightly pressed, the valve is fully open, and the bike on the jack will drop like the proverbial rock. You need to press the foot pedal all the way down to restrict the flow and slow the speed it comes down. Not that it's a very slow speed mind you. There is no throttling of the rate of descent like there is with a conventional automotive jack. You should be able to replace the valve with an automotive type, but you probably don't want to give up the foot control when lowering. The foot pedal type, while unpleasant, does allow you to be fully upright and having your hands on the bike as it comes down. And that you do want, hands on the bike. Personally, I stop mine once, before it hits the ground, let it re-stabilize for a second or two, and then drop it the last 2-3 inches all the way down. That's just me. However, understand that if you don't have hands on the bike when the jack goes all the way down, it's a 50/50 thing which way the bike is going to tip over. Personally, I prefer it to tip over onto the kickstand side. And make sure you've got the kickstand deployed before you lower the bike down.
I chose years ago a Harbor Freight jack, virtually identical to the OTC jack you are looking at. Later, I added a Harbor Freight lift table. And finally I've added a scissor lift for the HF lift table. I tend to use the HF lift table for mechanical work on the bike. The HF jack has been retired for mostly tire changes. Yes, I could use straps and the scissor lift on the lift table for tires, but I really don't like that. Perhaps in my next shop I'll have chain falls from the ceiling for things like tire changes on the lift table, where I can basically hang the bike from the shock mounts and triple tree. Tire changes one at a time aren't overly exciting, but doing them both at the same time, that gets interesting and entertaining, and not necessarily in a good way.
Jim G
#34
07-10-2024 | 10:45 PM
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#35
07-11-2024 | 08:52 AM
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From: Lethbridge, Alberta Canada
i asked the Canadian Big Blue distributor some more questions and he responded:
1. My Harley has 4.5 inches ground clearance under the frame tubes when sitting level, and only 3.75 inches under the left frame tube when resting on the side stand. Will the Big Blue EazyRizer slide into position, with its 2 beams, without hitting the left frame tube, when the bike is on its side stand?
#1 You will be able to slide the lift under either side of the bike while it sits on its side stand,
2. Can the Big Blue be deployed from EITHER right or left side of the bike? On left side, no interference with the side stand?
#2 Blue lifts from either side. On the low side (kick stand side) leave the stand down when lifting.
3. How long is each of the 2 “beams” that actually support the frame? (I’m wondering how “exact” I have to be in placing the Big Blue's beams under the bike in the ACROSS position)
#3 14 inches,,, when you slide the lift under the bike just look over the seat to see if you can see the mount sticking out , it only needs to clear the frame rail by a quarter inch to be safe but there is plenty of length in the Beams to get much more than that.
4. Is there some way to “lock” the lift in an elevated position, or is it simply impossible for the bike to lose altitude because the screw threads have sufficient friction?
#4 Locking the lift at any height isn’t needed. With the direct drive system what ever height you leave the lift it will stay there indefinitely,,,, You must turn the screw shaft to adjust the height … You could leave your bike at full height and come back in 10 years and it would be as you left it.
On #3, his answer is a bit deceptive when he says about the length of the actual beams on which the bike sits while being elevated: " it only needs to clear the frame rail by a quarter inch to be safe but there is plenty of length in the Beams to get much more than that."
I measured the overall width of the bottom frame rails on the Breakout, and it is 10 inches. He says the big Blue beams, at only 14 inches, have "plenty of length". I don't regard 14 minus 10 = 4 inches divided by 2 = 2 inches on each side, as "plenty" of length. Remember that this lift, like the hydraulic jack lifts, move the beams not only upward but also to one side, relative to the bike, while coming up from their bottomed position to the point of engagement with first the left frame tube (because it is lower than the right frame tube when on the sidestand) and then the right frame tube. The user needs to allow for that sideways movement before engagement with the bike's frame rails. The OTC jack has rails that are 17" long, which means that you have 17 minus 10 divided by 2 = 3.5 inches outward of the frame rails on each side to work within, which is almost double the 2 inches available on each side on the Big Blue.
On the lack of any locking mechanism on the Big blue: He is saying that there is sufficient thread friciton in the system to prevent downward creep, even if a bike is stored for years, let alone days or weeks.
One more thing: I want to be able to hold the bike's handelbar while it is comign down the last couple of inches after the tires have touched the floor and the deployed sidestand has not yet secured the bike against falling, or falling onto the sidestand too fast and hard. With a hydraulic jack type lift, that is easy, because you use your FOOT to control the downward movement and actually have both arms available to control the bike's side-to-side angle and stability. With the Big Blue, one arm is tied up controlling the down (or up) movement of the lift, leaving only one arm to control the angle and stability of the bike. So, I think you actually might have more stability control with the hyraulic jack.
Still thinking about which one to get . . .
Neither one makes me feel very secure. But my body is saying I need to choose SOME solution that enables me to not have to bend and twist as much as needed when the bike is not lifted.
Jim G
1. My Harley has 4.5 inches ground clearance under the frame tubes when sitting level, and only 3.75 inches under the left frame tube when resting on the side stand. Will the Big Blue EazyRizer slide into position, with its 2 beams, without hitting the left frame tube, when the bike is on its side stand?
#1 You will be able to slide the lift under either side of the bike while it sits on its side stand,
2. Can the Big Blue be deployed from EITHER right or left side of the bike? On left side, no interference with the side stand?
#2 Blue lifts from either side. On the low side (kick stand side) leave the stand down when lifting.
3. How long is each of the 2 “beams” that actually support the frame? (I’m wondering how “exact” I have to be in placing the Big Blue's beams under the bike in the ACROSS position)
#3 14 inches,,, when you slide the lift under the bike just look over the seat to see if you can see the mount sticking out , it only needs to clear the frame rail by a quarter inch to be safe but there is plenty of length in the Beams to get much more than that.
4. Is there some way to “lock” the lift in an elevated position, or is it simply impossible for the bike to lose altitude because the screw threads have sufficient friction?
#4 Locking the lift at any height isn’t needed. With the direct drive system what ever height you leave the lift it will stay there indefinitely,,,, You must turn the screw shaft to adjust the height … You could leave your bike at full height and come back in 10 years and it would be as you left it.
On #3, his answer is a bit deceptive when he says about the length of the actual beams on which the bike sits while being elevated: " it only needs to clear the frame rail by a quarter inch to be safe but there is plenty of length in the Beams to get much more than that."
I measured the overall width of the bottom frame rails on the Breakout, and it is 10 inches. He says the big Blue beams, at only 14 inches, have "plenty of length". I don't regard 14 minus 10 = 4 inches divided by 2 = 2 inches on each side, as "plenty" of length. Remember that this lift, like the hydraulic jack lifts, move the beams not only upward but also to one side, relative to the bike, while coming up from their bottomed position to the point of engagement with first the left frame tube (because it is lower than the right frame tube when on the sidestand) and then the right frame tube. The user needs to allow for that sideways movement before engagement with the bike's frame rails. The OTC jack has rails that are 17" long, which means that you have 17 minus 10 divided by 2 = 3.5 inches outward of the frame rails on each side to work within, which is almost double the 2 inches available on each side on the Big Blue.
On the lack of any locking mechanism on the Big blue: He is saying that there is sufficient thread friciton in the system to prevent downward creep, even if a bike is stored for years, let alone days or weeks.
One more thing: I want to be able to hold the bike's handelbar while it is comign down the last couple of inches after the tires have touched the floor and the deployed sidestand has not yet secured the bike against falling, or falling onto the sidestand too fast and hard. With a hydraulic jack type lift, that is easy, because you use your FOOT to control the downward movement and actually have both arms available to control the bike's side-to-side angle and stability. With the Big Blue, one arm is tied up controlling the down (or up) movement of the lift, leaving only one arm to control the angle and stability of the bike. So, I think you actually might have more stability control with the hyraulic jack.
Still thinking about which one to get . . .
Neither one makes me feel very secure. But my body is saying I need to choose SOME solution that enables me to not have to bend and twist as much as needed when the bike is not lifted.
Jim G
Last edited by JimGnitecki; 07-11-2024 at 08:59 AM.
#36
07-11-2024 | 09:32 AM
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Joined: Jun 2010
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From: Upstate New York
I found this OTC jack on Amazon Canada:
https://www.amazon.ca/OTC-1545-Motor...pb_opt?ie=UTF8
The rview sound great overall (just minor non-structural issues with some). The price is about double what other similar ones at Amazon sell for, but the reviews note some quality features, like 17" wide beams to hold the bike's frame rails.
The price of $581 is in CANADIAN dollars, which is about $424 US.
Apprently, the J&S is no longer available, so this might be the closest available quality (despite the issues noted by some reviewers).
I thought maybe Pitbull makes one of these in Wisconsin, but I checked. They do not, at least not currently.
Jim G
https://www.amazon.ca/OTC-1545-Motor...pb_opt?ie=UTF8
The rview sound great overall (just minor non-structural issues with some). The price is about double what other similar ones at Amazon sell for, but the reviews note some quality features, like 17" wide beams to hold the bike's frame rails.
The price of $581 is in CANADIAN dollars, which is about $424 US.
Apprently, the J&S is no longer available, so this might be the closest available quality (despite the issues noted by some reviewers).
I thought maybe Pitbull makes one of these in Wisconsin, but I checked. They do not, at least not currently.
Jim G
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#37
07-11-2024 | 10:04 AM
HDF Community Team
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 5,374
Likes: 1,704
From: USA
As long as the cross arm extends beyond the frame rail on either side, the bike is lifted stably and does not tip.
BUT... if you are close to the end, it takes very little "oopsie" motion to knock it off, and then the bike falls down.
I personally try to keep the bike roughly centered on the rails for just those oopsies, because they can and do happen to me at times. Many a time my bikes have slipped an inch or two side to side for various reasons, and sometimes a bit further.
I understand exactly what the vendor is saying about the acme screw and not needing a lock, and why they are saying it. I personally disagree, but that's a judgement call I make for my own use.
I do not ever like having something suspended or such from a single point with no other means of retaining it. I do not walk under suspended crane loads for that reason.
BTW I think the Big Blue unit lifts quite a bit higher than the OTC jack does, and that extra lift height can be a darn nice thing to have.
BUT... if you are close to the end, it takes very little "oopsie" motion to knock it off, and then the bike falls down.
I personally try to keep the bike roughly centered on the rails for just those oopsies, because they can and do happen to me at times. Many a time my bikes have slipped an inch or two side to side for various reasons, and sometimes a bit further.
I understand exactly what the vendor is saying about the acme screw and not needing a lock, and why they are saying it. I personally disagree, but that's a judgement call I make for my own use.
I do not ever like having something suspended or such from a single point with no other means of retaining it. I do not walk under suspended crane loads for that reason.
BTW I think the Big Blue unit lifts quite a bit higher than the OTC jack does, and that extra lift height can be a darn nice thing to have.
#38
07-11-2024 | 10:17 AM
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From: Lethbridge, Alberta Canada
That's the same lift that Harley-Davidson sells as a "genuine" accessory except painted orange. I bought one as it's the only lift I found that's low enough to fit under the frame of my '19 Heritage when it's on the jiffy stand. It works well and has positive locks that engage automatically. As the lift arms are rather close together, you have to be careful where you place it to balance the bike when you lift. Also, I find the jiffy stand spring retainer tab on the Softail can get caught easily on the lift frame when lowering the bike. Overall, I still like it. the casters make it easy to move around the garage and position it.
The HD website falsely states that this "does not fit your motorcycle", only because it requires an accessory kit pn 94675-99, which consists of 2 orange rubber frame tube sleeves, which are actually needed only for the 2017 and earlier Softails, to protect the rear shock absorbers which were under the transmission and apaprently protrude downward just slightly beyond the frame tubes!
I have asked the Canadian Big Blue distirbutor what the measurement is from the FRONT of the front support beam to the REAR of the rear support beam. That measurement is, as you have noted, very important in minimizing the motorcycle's ability to tilt down at either front or rea when placed too far forward or rearward on the lift, or when a wheel is removed.
What is that measurment on the OTC / HD lift?
Jim G
#39
07-11-2024 | 10:26 AM
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Stellar HDF Member
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From: Lethbridge, Alberta Canada
As long as the cross arm extends beyond the frame rail on either side, the bike is lifted stably and does not tip.
BUT... if you are close to the end, it takes very little "oopsie" motion to knock it off, and then the bike falls down.
I personally try to keep the bike roughly centered on the rails for just those oopsies, because they can and do happen to me at times. Many a time my bikes have slipped an inch or two side to side for various reasons, and sometimes a bit further.
I understand exactly what the vendor is saying about the acme screw and not needing a lock, and why they are saying it. I personally disagree, but that's a judgement call I make for my own use.
I do not ever like having something suspended or such from a single point with no other means of retaining it. I do not walk under suspended crane loads for that reason.
BTW I think the Big Blue unit lifts quite a bit higher than the OTC jack does, and that extra lift height can be a darn nice thing to have.
BUT... if you are close to the end, it takes very little "oopsie" motion to knock it off, and then the bike falls down.
I personally try to keep the bike roughly centered on the rails for just those oopsies, because they can and do happen to me at times. Many a time my bikes have slipped an inch or two side to side for various reasons, and sometimes a bit further.
I understand exactly what the vendor is saying about the acme screw and not needing a lock, and why they are saying it. I personally disagree, but that's a judgement call I make for my own use.
I do not ever like having something suspended or such from a single point with no other means of retaining it. I do not walk under suspended crane loads for that reason.
BTW I think the Big Blue unit lifts quite a bit higher than the OTC jack does, and that extra lift height can be a darn nice thing to have.
The short 14" "width" of the Big Blue lift's 2 support beams bother me. I like the 17" width of the OTC / HD lift much more.
And, I have asked both Uncle G and the Canadian Big Blue distributor for the front to rear measurement of the 2 beams, as that has a huge effect on stability if the lift placement is not exactly ideal or once either wheel is removed.
Jim G
#40
07-11-2024 | 11:25 AM
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From: Lethbridge, Alberta Canada
I described and explained the merits and weaknesses of both of these top contenders to my wife. She favours the HD / OTC solution for a couple of reasons:
- Price of the HD/OTC lift is 1/3 of the Big Blue, and the difference is not small in absolute dollars, being almost $900 cash
- HD is very liability aware and liability averse, so if HD is selling the HD / OTC version, it must be a pretty safe product to actually use
- If I ever have a problem with either lift, getting help from my HD dealership where I am a repeat valued customer is going to be much more likely than from the Canadian distributor selling a product sold to him by a company in England
Good points.
Jim G
- Price of the HD/OTC lift is 1/3 of the Big Blue, and the difference is not small in absolute dollars, being almost $900 cash
- HD is very liability aware and liability averse, so if HD is selling the HD / OTC version, it must be a pretty safe product to actually use
- If I ever have a problem with either lift, getting help from my HD dealership where I am a repeat valued customer is going to be much more likely than from the Canadian distributor selling a product sold to him by a company in England
Good points.
Jim G