My '22 FXLRS tuning plan. Your thoughts please.
#21
06-29-2024, 05:22 PM
So I guess I will add my two cents to this conversation. First, before you decide on a cam, watch the video link below. I think you might get some additional information that will help you make a better decision. The cam testing is toward the end of the video. There's good info on doing a cam change in the first part.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVfzCNTeKWI
Now, just to be clear, I own a 22 FXLRS with the 117" motor, but I have not even had a chance to ride it yet. That doesn't mean that I haven't looked at what I might want to do to enhance the performance of this bike.
First, my cam choice is the CR483. Two reasons. 1, it did really well in the video above. 2, I already have one which I loaned to FM for their 114" cam testing last year.
This may be a better choice for you also. It is available from FM.
You have said that you want to use the Thundermax tuner. I'm sure they are ok, but they use outdated Alph N technology. As far as I know you will lose the anti-knock function by going to this tuner. It is also much more expensive than the TTS or Powervision. If you are using Fuelmoto you will be able to get good support for the Powervision through them.
You are talking about going with the S&S lifter cuffs. The automotive industry has been using the plastic cuffs for years without a problem. I have actually seen at least one article that said unless you were using a really high lift cam, the aluminum cuffs weren't as good.
As for going to a 128" motor, how much power do you want. I know you ride sport bikes, so you might want more than I do. The stock 117" motor is 10.2:1 compression. Just changing to a .030 head gasket will change this to 10.49:1, or the same as the 114". If you CC the heads to 86 cc's you will get an additional .2 bump to 10.7:1. This should enhance the performance of the stock engine. I would say torque to the north of 140 ft/lbs. is achievable with hp in the 125 area with much $$$ saved. Larger injectors is probably advisable, but a larger throttle body is not necessary, although the aluminum manifold would be a good addition.
Two other things I highly recommend.
The Rekluse Torq-Drive clutch. It has four additional plates that give you much more hold without the higher spring pressures. You can get quite a bit stronger than stock with much lower spring pressure which results in a light clutch pull, much like your sport bikes.
Then an aftermarket compensator ramp. This is available to you locally through TTS in England.
There, you have my two cents. Good luck with your upgrade.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVfzCNTeKWI
Now, just to be clear, I own a 22 FXLRS with the 117" motor, but I have not even had a chance to ride it yet. That doesn't mean that I haven't looked at what I might want to do to enhance the performance of this bike.
First, my cam choice is the CR483. Two reasons. 1, it did really well in the video above. 2, I already have one which I loaned to FM for their 114" cam testing last year.
This may be a better choice for you also. It is available from FM.
You have said that you want to use the Thundermax tuner. I'm sure they are ok, but they use outdated Alph N technology. As far as I know you will lose the anti-knock function by going to this tuner. It is also much more expensive than the TTS or Powervision. If you are using Fuelmoto you will be able to get good support for the Powervision through them.
You are talking about going with the S&S lifter cuffs. The automotive industry has been using the plastic cuffs for years without a problem. I have actually seen at least one article that said unless you were using a really high lift cam, the aluminum cuffs weren't as good.
As for going to a 128" motor, how much power do you want. I know you ride sport bikes, so you might want more than I do. The stock 117" motor is 10.2:1 compression. Just changing to a .030 head gasket will change this to 10.49:1, or the same as the 114". If you CC the heads to 86 cc's you will get an additional .2 bump to 10.7:1. This should enhance the performance of the stock engine. I would say torque to the north of 140 ft/lbs. is achievable with hp in the 125 area with much $$$ saved. Larger injectors is probably advisable, but a larger throttle body is not necessary, although the aluminum manifold would be a good addition.
Two other things I highly recommend.
The Rekluse Torq-Drive clutch. It has four additional plates that give you much more hold without the higher spring pressures. You can get quite a bit stronger than stock with much lower spring pressure which results in a light clutch pull, much like your sport bikes.
Then an aftermarket compensator ramp. This is available to you locally through TTS in England.
There, you have my two cents. Good luck with your upgrade.
It's a useful vid in showing the various classes of cams back to back though. They basically make about the same gains but make them in different places. That is as important as the outright figure, if not more so. The video shows that dynamic very well where few such vids do, and reinforces Fuelmoto's view that the XE is not the cam for the way I ride. Describing cams as "torque" and "power", as most distributors do, is misleading. That vid clarifies that very well.
Fair point about the tuner. I can get a TTS in the UK (no shipping and import costs) for nearly half the price of the Thundermax. Good shout and something I'll look into. How I get a base map loaded I don't know and I'm not sure if it's self-learning. Electronics is not my area. More research to do there.
Yes a compensator ramp from TTS is the way to go. Easy source in the UK and cheaper.
I've decided to skip the throttle body. But I'll get an HPI-M8-MO manifold which will accommodate stock, 58 and 62 mm bodies.So allows for a Tunnel Ram breather with the option to upgrade to a larger body later if I choose to. Cuffs, not fussed. If the cam kit comes with them I'll fit them. Otherwise leave stock in place.
Looking into the Rekluse clutch but I think that's a UK source as well.
So I think the mists are clearing.
Sawicki mid - done deal.
Tunnel ram breather and HPI manifold - done deal.
5.5 injectors - done deal.
Cam - working on but at least I now know which category I need. And why..
Compensator - done deal.
Tuner - work in progress but leaning towards the TTS.
Rekluse - pending.
IF I decide to go 128" there's nothing there I need to buy twice except the cam which is unavoidable.
The plan is emerging. Thanks for your input.
Last edited by Gimlet; 06-29-2024 at 05:24 PM.
#22
06-30-2024, 07:02 AM
Road Master
The Woods cam they review in that vid is the 22XE. I've ruled that out. I definitely shift higher in the rev range so the XD would be better for me. I guess the CR485 would be the equivalent. I'll try to find comparisons between those two.
It's a useful vid in showing the various classes of cams back to back though. They basically make about the same gains but make them in different places. That is as important as the outright figure, if not more so. The video shows that dynamic very well where few such vids do, and reinforces Fuelmoto's view that the XE is not the cam for the way I ride. Describing cams as "torque" and "power", as most distributors do, is misleading. That vid clarifies that very well.
Fair point about the tuner. I can get a TTS in the UK (no shipping and import costs) for nearly half the price of the Thundermax. Good shout and something I'll look into. How I get a base map loaded I don't know and I'm not sure if it's self-learning. Electronics is not my area. More research to do there.
Yes a compensator ramp from TTS is the way to go. Easy source in the UK and cheaper.
I've decided to skip the throttle body. But I'll get an HPI-M8-MO manifold which will accommodate stock, 58 and 62 mm bodies.So allows for a Tunnel Ram breather with the option to upgrade to a larger body later if I choose to. Cuffs, not fussed. If the cam kit comes with them I'll fit them. Otherwise leave stock in place.
Looking into the Rekluse clutch but I think that's a UK source as well.
So I think the mists are clearing.
Sawicki mid - done deal.
Tunnel ram breather and HPI manifold - done deal.
5.5 injectors - done deal.
Cam - working on but at least I now know which category I need. And why..
Compensator - done deal.
Tuner - work in progress but leaning towards the TTS.
Rekluse - pending.
IF I decide to go 128" there's nothing there I need to buy twice except the cam which is unavoidable.
The plan is emerging. Thanks for your input.
It's a useful vid in showing the various classes of cams back to back though. They basically make about the same gains but make them in different places. That is as important as the outright figure, if not more so. The video shows that dynamic very well where few such vids do, and reinforces Fuelmoto's view that the XE is not the cam for the way I ride. Describing cams as "torque" and "power", as most distributors do, is misleading. That vid clarifies that very well.
Fair point about the tuner. I can get a TTS in the UK (no shipping and import costs) for nearly half the price of the Thundermax. Good shout and something I'll look into. How I get a base map loaded I don't know and I'm not sure if it's self-learning. Electronics is not my area. More research to do there.
Yes a compensator ramp from TTS is the way to go. Easy source in the UK and cheaper.
I've decided to skip the throttle body. But I'll get an HPI-M8-MO manifold which will accommodate stock, 58 and 62 mm bodies.So allows for a Tunnel Ram breather with the option to upgrade to a larger body later if I choose to. Cuffs, not fussed. If the cam kit comes with them I'll fit them. Otherwise leave stock in place.
Looking into the Rekluse clutch but I think that's a UK source as well.
So I think the mists are clearing.
Sawicki mid - done deal.
Tunnel ram breather and HPI manifold - done deal.
5.5 injectors - done deal.
Cam - working on but at least I now know which category I need. And why..
Compensator - done deal.
Tuner - work in progress but leaning towards the TTS.
Rekluse - pending.
IF I decide to go 128" there's nothing there I need to buy twice except the cam which is unavoidable.
The plan is emerging. Thanks for your input.
i have CR485 in my 114 softail
#23
06-30-2024, 07:50 AM
Stellar HDF Member
The Woods cam they review in that vid is the 22XE. I've ruled that out. I definitely shift higher in the rev range so the XD would be better for me. I guess the CR485 would be the equivalent. I'll try to find comparisons between those two.
It's a useful vid in showing the various classes of cams back to back though. They basically make about the same gains but make them in different places. That is as important as the outright figure, if not more so. The video shows that dynamic very well where few such vids do, and reinforces Fuelmoto's view that the XE is not the cam for the way I ride. Describing cams as "torque" and "power", as most distributors do, is misleading. That vid clarifies that very well.
Fair point about the tuner. I can get a TTS in the UK (no shipping and import costs) for nearly half the price of the Thundermax. Good shout and something I'll look into. How I get a base map loaded I don't know and I'm not sure if it's self-learning. Electronics is not my area. More research to do there.
Yes a compensator ramp from TTS is the way to go. Easy source in the UK and cheaper.
I've decided to skip the throttle body. But I'll get an HPI-M8-MO manifold which will accommodate stock, 58 and 62 mm bodies.So allows for a Tunnel Ram breather with the option to upgrade to a larger body later if I choose to. Cuffs, not fussed. If the cam kit comes with them I'll fit them. Otherwise leave stock in place.
Looking into the Rekluse clutch but I think that's a UK source as well.
So I think the mists are clearing.
Sawicki mid - done deal.
Tunnel ram breather and HPI manifold - done deal.
5.5 injectors - done deal.
Cam - working on but at least I now know which category I need. And why..
Compensator - done deal.
Tuner - work in progress but leaning towards the TTS.
Rekluse - pending.
IF I decide to go 128" there's nothing there I need to buy twice except the cam which is unavoidable.
The plan is emerging. Thanks for your input.
It's a useful vid in showing the various classes of cams back to back though. They basically make about the same gains but make them in different places. That is as important as the outright figure, if not more so. The video shows that dynamic very well where few such vids do, and reinforces Fuelmoto's view that the XE is not the cam for the way I ride. Describing cams as "torque" and "power", as most distributors do, is misleading. That vid clarifies that very well.
Fair point about the tuner. I can get a TTS in the UK (no shipping and import costs) for nearly half the price of the Thundermax. Good shout and something I'll look into. How I get a base map loaded I don't know and I'm not sure if it's self-learning. Electronics is not my area. More research to do there.
Yes a compensator ramp from TTS is the way to go. Easy source in the UK and cheaper.
I've decided to skip the throttle body. But I'll get an HPI-M8-MO manifold which will accommodate stock, 58 and 62 mm bodies.So allows for a Tunnel Ram breather with the option to upgrade to a larger body later if I choose to. Cuffs, not fussed. If the cam kit comes with them I'll fit them. Otherwise leave stock in place.
Looking into the Rekluse clutch but I think that's a UK source as well.
So I think the mists are clearing.
Sawicki mid - done deal.
Tunnel ram breather and HPI manifold - done deal.
5.5 injectors - done deal.
Cam - working on but at least I now know which category I need. And why..
Compensator - done deal.
Tuner - work in progress but leaning towards the TTS.
Rekluse - pending.
IF I decide to go 128" there's nothing there I need to buy twice except the cam which is unavoidable.
The plan is emerging. Thanks for your input.
#24
07-01-2024, 01:47 AM
#25
07-01-2024, 02:00 AM
the 22xE is an animal in the upper rpm’s. Not as powerful as the xd but the xd is going to have a softer lower rpm feel. The thing I like with the xe is great power though out the rpm range. Fuel moto calls the xd the hooligan cam. Great sound for the throttle happy rider but you will give up some on the low end. You can’t always ride in the upper rpm’s. As far the xd in a 128 kit with the increased compression it would build the lower end and you would have better power through out the range I think. There’s better big bore cams but I think the xd would do fine.
The comparison vids are all well and good but it's hard to read them when they pile half a dozen graphs on top of each other and you can't really disentangle them on the screen. Very often they're also graphs for bikes with different engines and set-ups to mine. There's not much point basing a choice on the figures for a 107" bike running a different pipe to what my 117 will have. Hence more research required.
TBH I'd probably find any of them a great improvement over stock. I'll do more research. Haven't made my mind up yet. I said the 22DX was a done deal but what I can source in the UK without having to pay import costs could still change that.
If I buy a TTS tuner, I'll probably fit the breather, manifold and pipe first as I can fit those myself, and then load a tune myself. Then I'll work out where I feel the torque curve is lacking and make my cam choice from there.
However this thread has been useful. I'm now more settled in my mind about which modifications and drive-side upgrades I need. The trouble with asking distributors is they obviously want to sell you what they stock.
The following users liked this post:
Gimlet (07-02-2024)
#27
07-02-2024, 06:48 AM
#28
07-02-2024, 06:58 AM
Yes Alex @ www.fastlaneheadwork.co.uk stocks Cyclerama
https://thedynoguy.com/harley-davids...am-p3y3k-r4ycz
Last edited by Gimlet; 07-02-2024 at 06:59 AM.
#29
07-02-2024, 12:46 PM
Club Member
Found this on the CR485. I thought that was pretty respectable for a 114 running a 2 into 2 pipe. Not much torque loss at the bottom end either. That shape, magnified a bit for the 117, would certainly suit my riding.
https://thedynoguy.com/harley-davids...am-p3y3k-r4ycz
https://thedynoguy.com/harley-davids...am-p3y3k-r4ycz
The CR483 is a drop in cam for stock spring height. Power range between 2,000 to 5,500. This cam makes loads of Mid range torque ! It just pulls hard! Stock thru 11:1 compression ratio. Has a very lumpy idle and makes smaller engines sound like the big boys! This cam in Screaming eagle 131 engines is Matt Smiths personal favorite because of the strong 160 plus Ft lbs of torque by 3500 rpm in these stock 131’s!
I've decided to skip the throttle body. But I'll get an HPI-M8-MO manifold which will accommodate stock, 58 and 62 mm bodies.So allows for a Tunnel Ram breather with the option to upgrade to a larger body later if I choose to. Cuffs, not fussed. If the cam kit comes with them I'll fit them. Otherwise leave stock in place.
Looking into the Rekluse clutch but I think that's a UK source as well.
So I think the mists are clearing.
Sawicki mid - done deal.
Tunnel ram breather and HPI manifold - done deal.
5.5 injectors - done deal.
Cam - working on but at least I now know which category I need. And why..
Compensator - done deal.
Tuner - work in progress but leaning towards the TTS.
Rekluse - pending.
IF I decide to go 128" there's nothing there I need to buy twice except the cam which is unavoidable.
The plan is emerging. Thanks for your input.
Looking into the Rekluse clutch but I think that's a UK source as well.
So I think the mists are clearing.
Sawicki mid - done deal.
Tunnel ram breather and HPI manifold - done deal.
5.5 injectors - done deal.
Cam - working on but at least I now know which category I need. And why..
Compensator - done deal.
Tuner - work in progress but leaning towards the TTS.
Rekluse - pending.
IF I decide to go 128" there's nothing there I need to buy twice except the cam which is unavoidable.
The plan is emerging. Thanks for your input.
As for the HPI manifold, the thing that concerns me if is this. "HPI's billet intake manifold will bolt to a stock throttle body with a slight step"... I would think that may cause turbulence and a power loss. The Harley Screamin' Eagle Extreme-Flow 55mm Intake Manifold $201.95 Part Number: 27300167 is $100 less in the US, not sure the price difference in the UK, and you can always sell it later if you decide to go with something larger. By the way, the SE throttle bodies perform very close to the HPI's and are quite a bit less. The part number for the naked 64mm SE throttle body without the manifold is 27300147. I think you can still buy it that way. I paid less than $250 for the throttle body in 2019, I'm sure it would be more now. The Screamin' Eagle Extreme Flow 64mm EFI Intake Manifold is $263.95 Part Number: 27300185. This is what the SE manifold looks like.
M8® intake manifold will bolt to a stock throttle body with a slight step, no exchange .needed, as it's just the manifold upgrade. M8® intake manifold will bolt to a stock throttle body with a slight step, no exchange needed, as it's just the manifold upgrade. M8® intake manifold will bolt to a stock throttle body with a slight step, no exchange needed, as it's just the manifold upgrade.
#30
07-02-2024, 12:54 PM
Gimlet - On that dyno sheet they advanced the cam 4 degrees. See in the description where it indicates Andrews plus 4? That is a cam sprocket that advances the cam timing. Just wanted to point that out to make sure you knew there was another part to that result.
Zach
Zach
Found this on the CR485. I thought that was pretty respectable for a 114 running a 2 into 2 pipe. Not much torque loss at the bottom end either. That shape, magnified a bit for the 117, would certainly suit my riding.
https://thedynoguy.com/harley-davids...am-p3y3k-r4ycz
https://thedynoguy.com/harley-davids...am-p3y3k-r4ycz