Because they're supposed to add hp up top at the expense of reducing mid-range torque, which is what most people want?

Not saying that's what they do, because I've never tried one, but that's what I've read.

 

Is that what most people want?

Up-top HP is for drag racing. Low/mid-range torque is for accelerating from a stop, cruising, and passing without having to downshift two or three gears.

If you're building a race bike, go for the HP. If you're building a riding bike, torque is generally where it's at, which is why almost everyone here who gets a Harley Stage II goes for the 447 Torque cam instead of the HP cam. (mind you, the torque cam also gives a huge boost in top-end horsepower, just not as much of a boost as the HP cam does.)

 

I meant that mid-range torque is what most people want, rather than top-end hp. At last that's the impression I get from from exhaust topics. It's certainly what I'm looking for in a pipe.

 

, I prefere low end torque on my bike as I rarely exeed 3500 rpm and don't care about performance, and I don't like the look of these short 2 into 1, the best looking 2 into 1 for me is the Thunder Header, but on my Low Rider S I prefere the stock header with the Twin Slash from Vance and Hines...

 

I did S&s slash cut slip on’s as a first exhaust mode and it still sounded like ****. A n aftermarket cam and the right 2 into 1 not only increases power it gives the m8 a soul! 130 Torks at 3500 rpm yeah, I agree low end torque is a great thing 😂!

 

you're certainly right for the soul, but I like my smooth ride and the contained sound of my exhausts...
perhaps later, will see...

 

You have to think about what future induction mods you might have planned as well. If you're going to cam it, you want to match the pipe to the cam profile you've got in mind.

After reading multiple cam threads on here I'm returning to the idea of a Woods 22XE, which will increase hp as well but deliver a fat torque bulge right where you ride. You want a pipe that compliments that. For me, I still can't see a better or more cost-effective option than a Jackpot Riot.
The performance of the Jackpot I think is undisputed and while they're a shortER system, they're not silly short, nor silly loud.

I like the look of the high level Thunderheader (a custom made replica in titanium would look fantastic when the headers turned blue) but I'm pretty sure that system would rule out the use of hard bags.
For a combination of practicality, looks, performance and value for money, I keep coming back to the Jackpot Riot.

 

I have always run Thunderheader on my bikes, until now. I just sold my LR and picked up a LRST and looked at TH, $1600-$1800 you have to be kidding me I know the quality of the product. I would never pay that much for a TH, so I ended up ordering a FAB28. I will have to see how it goes as I am worried about sound but know the pipe and performance will be top shelf. I hear nothing but great things about FAB28 so looking forward to it, but I will miss the sound of a TH.

 

i have seen this video yeterday of an australian guy who is bored with his stage 2 on his Street Bob 114 and who has come back to a normal stage 1 to recover a smoth ride and a better ridability in all conditions...
while I don't care about performance and prefer the smoothness of my engine at low revs, I quite agree with his approach and that's why I want to stay in stock configuration, and also for reliability.

 

guessing he has a torque dip that is common with that cam and more importantly a non aggressive rider. He picked the wrong cam for his style of riding . My stage 2 has zero ride ability issues. As far as reliability I have improved it by getting rid of all the inferior parts. Stage 2 on the m8 is a great thing.