Hi, I am new here, and I am sure somebody's going to say "use the search feature", but I have tried, and I don't see exactly this discussion. If I missed it, I apologize. I signed up for this forum just to ask this question.

I have a 2018 Heritage 114 with a Ventilator and V&H slip-ons. I have a Dynojet PV-2B in the mail, arriving Sunday. I am interested in further upgrades, for the main purpose of fun. I have several questions that I haven't found specific info on. Most likely, I will choose between the HD Stage III and Stage IV kits and get whichever one I choose installed at a dealership. This seems like a surprisingly difficult choice and I'm wondering if I'm overthinking or missing something.

Mainly: it looks like Stage IV 117 does not shine until you're over 4000 RPM, while Stage III seems better than stock everywhere but especially down low. I'm more interested in power I can feel than highest max numbers. A 24% improvement I feel every day seems better to me than a 40% improvement I rarely experience. I do most of my riding on 45mph and 55mph roads.

At the same time, I don't want to install Stage III and then realize down the road I should have gone with Stage IV. The price difference between those two kits is not going to be the deciding factor, it's about what would be the most fun for the way I ride.

One question is, would a dealer work with me on boosting low-end torque in a Stage IV upgrade by, for example, swapping cams? If so, any specific recommendations?

Alternately, if I got Stage III and wanted to go to Stage IV down the road, can that be done for a reasonable amount, say around $1500, or would it require a full-blown Stage IV kit and install?

While the price difference in these two kits isn't going to make or break me, I don't want to spend like a drunken sailor either. And with that in mind, may as well ask, what would a dealer charge for labor for Stage II torque? If I can't decide between III and IV, that seems like good bang for the buck.

Thanks!

 

I went with stage II and the Smart Tune Pro Module. Really runs great. You begin to lose engine and drive train life with Stage III and higher builds. With a stage IV cam you'll be going 55 mph in second gear.

 

Thanks - did you get the torque cam or the HP cam? And may I ask, what was the labor cost? I appreciate the response!

 

I have the torque cam in the dyno chart below. It makes more power (a lot more) than the stock cam without losing any bottom end torque. It was installed with a bundle of stuff and the bike so I don't know the exact cost.

 

If you're not in any hurry, I'd say neither choice sounds like a great idea.

Mainly because the existing Harley Stage IV is probably going to cease to exist soon, hopefully to be replaced by the 131ci Stage IV as fitted to the Touring line. Harley ditched the old Stage IV on the Touring line and replaced it with the new, much bigger 131ci kit, which has a vastly better torque curve and would be (IMO) much, much more desirable than either the existing Stage III or Stage IV options.

However, they don't yet offer it for the Softails. Don't know why. Might have to do with the exhaust header; the upgrade kit for the Touring bikes includes a new headpipe, and wouldn't fit the Softail. Then engine would though, so if you were having an indie install it you could just use whatever exhaust you wanted, especially since with the PowerVision and the age of your bike, it's likely that warranty is of no concern to you.

Which leads to the second observation -- why go with the Harley kits when your warranty's already gone? The primary benefit to the Harley kits is that they keep your warranty intact, but on a 2018 you're probably already ex-warranty. In that case, you have many more options, like the FuelMoto special, it's $2,799 for 128 ci, fully installed, with breakin and a full dyno tune. Seems like a hell of a deal, although you'd also need to get one of their recommended exhaust systems.

As far as Stage III goes, if you look at Harley's published dyno charts, the Stage III shows almost exactly the same performance as the Stage II. So why go III? It's a lot more expensive, and you only get 3 cubic inches.

So if you really were interested in the Stage III idea, I'd say something like a TTS100 camshaft and a dyno tune would probably get you approximately equivalent performance, certainly performance that you will feel every day, every twist of the wrist, for much less than the Harley Stage III kit and installation.

 

I am now running a TTS100 cam. I put it in with the upgraded 2020 oil pump. The bike is noticeably stronger than it was with the H-D torque cam. Still using the H-D tuner and Smart Tune Pro Module.

 

Thanks, very helpful. I do have a little warranty left. It expires this fall. I figure I will just flash back to stock if I need to for warranty purposes. Knock on wood, I won’t need it.

If I got the TTS100 cam now, would that be wasted if I did the FM 128 this winter? And what is labor cost for a cam change?

How does FM 128 compare with HD 131 (I know not a fair comparison since 131 is not really available for my bike)?

Thanks again! I am replying during my lunch stop on a 5-hour weekend joyride.

 

Guess I'll throw my 2 in here. Got a smoking deal on a new in the box stage 3 114-117 kit from a forum member. $825 shipped. Dealer installed for $800 with updated oil pump. A good tune and tuner ( my tuner uses tts) is mandatory imo. Other mods are screamin eagle extreme ventilator and s&s grand national full system. Probably coulda got a few more hp and ft. lbs tourqe with a true 2 into 1 as the grand national is more of a 2 into 1 into 2 but I like the look of mine. Top chart is of harley dyno, bottom is my chart so hd is quite conservative with their numbers. Bike rides awesome and very tourqey from the get go. Extremely happy with how it came out. Seems pretty comparable with aftermarket 117 kits. So, yeah, I'm very happy with the se stage 3. Cant emphasize a good dyno tune enough

 

FM has a really good 128 build that they call "low compression". Perfect for an every day bike. Just contact them and they will take care of everything you need.

 

I have done some more research and thinking. I emailed Fuel Moto over the weekend, will see what they come up with.

The options as I see them are (in no particular order)

1 - Do nothing except tune, until different options are available. Cost, $0 (already paid for the tuner, so I mean cost from this point forward).
Pro, easiest and cheapest option, con, no improvement except for tune.
2 - Cam upgrade. If I get the official Harley torque cam and get it done at the dealership two miles from my house, total cost will be about $1350. That is $400 for the kit, $850 or so for labor, plus tax and possible additional small parts.
Pro, easiest and cheapest physical upgrade, con, money wasted if I later go big-bore.
3 - HD 117 Stage III. Assuming stock Ventilator and stock pipes with V&H slip-ons are adequate, cost at my local dealership would be around $4K. That is $1600 for the kit (Surdyke), $2150 or so for labor, plus tax and small parts.
Pro, nice torque curve, con, it's expensive and would be a lot of money wasted if I wanted to go 128 or 131 in the future.
4 - HD 117 Stage IV. Assuming stock Ventilator and stock pipes with V&H slip-ons are adequate, cost at my local dealership would be around $5K. That is $2550 for the kit (Surdyke), $2150 or so for labor, plus tax and small parts.
Pro, ???, con, torque curve looks mediocre at best for how I ride, and it's expensive.
5 - FM 128 kit. I had essentially decided to do this, before I realized that the $2800 price is only at their shop in Appleton, WI. So I'd probably be hiring a local mechanic to install it, and I know that means any problem I have with it, the mechanic will blame the kit and FM will blame the mechanic. Shipping the bike to/from WI would take the cost to at least $4500 (again assuming my A/C and pipes are adequate), the bike would potentially be in transit for a month, and what do I do if I get it back and there's a problem.
Pro, looks great on paper, cost would be good if I lived in Wisconsin, con, I do not live in Wisconsin.

I am waiting to see what FM says in response to my email. (Can I tag them here? I know they use this board. I don't know how to tag people here.)

Let's just go ahead and eliminate option #4, I don't see that happening.

I think I will do #5 if FM offers a solution or if I decide to wait until the winter when shipping a bike two weeks there and two weeks back won't be as big an issue. Or if I get impatient, I might do the cam upgrade now and then revisit next year.

Thanks for all insight!