Technically, you guys are discussing combinations of parts and tunes that may not be considered CARB compliant. If not, the warranty comes into question.

 

Here is the AFR map of my 2019 Heritage 114, SE Stage 2 Torque cam, Rinehart 3.5” slip-ons, K&N High Flow filter element Suggested setting by V&H Customer Service Technician SE8-447, V&H Twin Slash slip-on 3” No Baffle 114 Cl

 

Let's see the right half too. Looks very similar to the map I found with the demo software.

In all of the cells that are not yellow, the engine runs open loop (no O2 feedback). It is critical that the volumetric efficiency (VE) tables be correct in those cells. That could be where your tune from V&H is better. In the yellow cells the ECM can apply corrective fuel trims.

H-D claims that their Smart Tune Pro Auto Tuning Module with wide band O2 sensors can apply fuel trims to the entire map. That is what I am using.

 

If you put on any part that's labeled "not for use on pollution-controlled vehicles", then you've already voided the warranty regardless of what tuner you use. Read the warranty, it says that Harley has no obligation to warranty a bike that's not legal to operate on the streets.

 

Thanks. There goes my great idea...

 

As if it wasn’t obvious anyway and said millions of times...how’d you miss it?

 

Rorin, "So you're starting to get at what I've been wondering about for some time. Hypothetically speaking (of course!), if you installed one of V&H's full exhaust systems, can the SE-PST provide a "canned/locked" tune that is similar to a tune in the V&H-FP3 by selecting a canned/locked tune in the SE-PST that is different/higher-flowing than the actual components on your bike (e.g., by picking a bigger engine displacement than your actual engine)?

If so, this theoretically should allow you to run a full aftermarket higher-flowing (and better sounding) exhaust system with a good tune while still maintaining your full HD warranty because you're using a tune from the SE-PST (albeit not one for your actual bike's components) and not an aftermarket tuner, correct?"

Yes that is correct. Thats what I did only not with V&H because they don't have a compliant CARB approved exhaust.

When I did mine (12/19) they said the only H-D EPA CARB compliant full aftermarket exhaust for the M8 softails was the S&S Superstreet. It must flow because the only difference between a regular stage 3 kit and mine is the exhaust & TB and it made an extra 8 HP and lost no torque over what H-D shows in the 2020 SE parts catalog chart with the same stage 3 kit plus H-Ds SE pipe. Shown in chrome but also available in black. If you look below my duno graph above you can also see the Air/Fuel graph.

https://www.sscycle.com/products/sup...oftail-models/


So Sideburn's post is wrong. your idea is correct and has been done only with a CARB compliant part.

 

I think you are both correct. It sounds like:
1 - we can trick the SE-PST into a good tune for an aftermarket full exhaust system by using tuning parameters that are different than the bike's actual components (making VernDiesel correct); and
2 - if we did so using a non-CARB compliant full aftermarket exhaust, then HD would void our warranty for running illegal parts on the bike (making Sideburn correct).

It's a Win-Win! Or is it a Win-Lose? Or is it a...? My head hurts...

 

My guess is that Vern is lucky. Vern had a 114 kit installed. There happens to be a nearly identical kit at 117 cu in. The dealer gave it a try to offset the larger throttle body on Vern's bike. You get lucky sometimes.

 

The HD Smart Pro Is different from the HD Pro Street tuner, right? That probably accounts for the fact that it satisfies you but the SE-PST was horrible for me.