I did stage 2 with a full exhaust and the SE tuner. My bike runs and sounds great. I think you got a bad tune from the installer unfortunately.

 

OK, no problem. The H-D AFR tables are locked and cannot be changed. The tables are available from H-D in the Street Tuner software. I'll post a comparison to V&H.

 

Here's the H-D vs FP3 air/fuel ratio tables to compare. The added fuel on the left side of the FP3 table (small throttle openings) is to help control decel-pop with low restriction exhaust. Otherwise quite similar. I'm a little concerned about those lean 90 kpa cells on the FP3.

 

I think alot of new Harley owners have drank the Harley ? EPA / Koolaid. Speaking fairley to theses owners they simply do not want to loose their factory warranty .What went down between EPA and Harley's legal department may have been a spanking by the EPA or Harley just using the EPA boogie man to sell their junk EPA compliant Pro-Tuner and their EPA so-called hi-performance slip on mufflers . All the above to keep your Harley factory warranty intact . Simply put the Harley Pro tuner will give you the same factory lean fuel/air mixture that the factory offers . Can you say buyers remorse ? When I installed my Twin Slash slip - on mufflers on my 2016 883 Iron along with a Arlen Ness high flow air filter I then flash a new map to the ECM module with the FuelPak and after firing the engine for the first time my wife screamed out to the garage , " I smell gas fumes, that is new for your motorcycle . "
Yeah that odor is normal, not the lean running engine that Harley gives us from the factory . Pulled both plugs and they were snow white ! This lean condition cannot be healthy for your engine . A year later I pulled the two plugs again and they had that nice brown varnished color . I have a new 2019 Softail Slim and yes I will wait unti the warranty is up and do my stage I upgrades . I will not be using Harley's junk pro Tuner, I'am not loosing my warranty to theses ******* .

 

I don’t really care about the warranty, I installed my stage 2 in my garage, largely voiding the warranty. The SE parts and tuners give a nice bump in power without having to worry about reliability or support. They are designed by the engineers that made the motor, not by a company only selling numbers. I also don’t buy into the epa is the root of all evil bs. A modern car that meets current epa standards easily makes more power with a much smaller motor than a car made 30 years ago.

 

No one drank any kool-aid. Low effort dismisal is low effort.

People are worried about warranty because people these days are more consumer product conscious, and the EPA ruling does not affect only Harley. It sets a legal precident in a court of law that can be referenced as law in the future.
This ruling effectively plays a trump card against the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act.
This isn't something harley wanted either, because it affects a sales tactic of their bikes. The aftermarket plays a pivotal arguement to buy a harley. "If you buy an HD customization is unlimited!" Harley used this for years as a means to sell their bikes.
Now they cant.
This hurts harley, not helps them.

The legal situation now unecessarily holds them, and every motorcompany liable for emissions, and it's not the only ruling that has made companies concerned. The ruling on Volkswagen also has the industry tightening up.
The other factor about Warranty as of late is the linger stigma of issues with the new M8. People have had some serious issues with the first few runs of the M8 and harley is under fire for it. So people are interested in protecting their investment when possible.
Warranty is their safe guard.
A power train is not cheap.
An M8 is not the same as a Sportster EVO. EVOs have had their hayday and proven themselves to be a platform you can mod and abuse without worry.

People have a very good reason in this day and age to keep a warranty in-tact and gamble the risk due to the new legal environment these legal cases have created. The M8 is getting it's issues sorted, but it will take time before people trust it completely.

Anyone trying to keep their warranty in-tact is simply trying to be a wise consumer.

 

Sure, it's going to smell like gas after you remove the catalytic converters.

The FP3 tune for an M8 is not richer except where the engine is coasting.

The M8 has dual spark plugs and 4 valves per head. It was designed to run at fuel mixtures near stoichiometric under closed-loop control with O2 sensors. This reduces carbon build up (white spark plug insulators) and increases fuel mileage and range, while providing good performance. Good luck tuning your bike like it was built with a carburetor in 1960.

 

The H-D Street Tuner, and the Optional Smart Tune pro module, are intended for tuning specific H-D power-train configurations. The H-D tunes are all "locked" within limits and EPA certified. This is not a bad thing at all if you have an H-D stage kit on your bike.

If you want to use aftermarket components, like camshafts, exhaust systems, big bore kits, etc, then an aftermarket tuner will have more capability with various "unlocked" editable tuning tables. It does not mean you will be tuning your bike any better than H-D tunes their kits. If you are good at it, you will be able to tune a custom engine configuration as good as H-D tunes their kits.

 

Times 2 that was spot on. OP's biggest problem was that he had a shitty dealership mechanic that did not tune his bike well. Unfortunately because of it he spent twice to get a second tuner and burnt his warranty. No wonder the mechanic did not provide the Air Fuel graph with the dyno graph. My bike is a 100% compliant stage 3 but with a CARB approved S&S Streetmaster 2-1 header & exhaust plus a 64mm TB and intake. So it still fully meets H-D warranty but is not strictly standard stage 3 kit components. It was tuned with SE-PST but because of better flow the mechanic used a map from a 117. He also included the Air Fuel graph with the dyno graph. Not perfect but pretty damn good so the map etc he chose generally gave enough tuning parameter for my motor. It made a respectable 116 HP & 116 TQ.

 

So you're starting to get at what I've been wondering about for some time. Hypothetically speaking (of course!), if you installed one of V&H's full exhaust systems, can the SE-PST provide a "canned/locked" tune that is similar to a tune in the V&H-FP3 by selecting a canned/locked tune in the SE-PST that is different/higher-flowing than the actual components on your bike (e.g., by picking a bigger engine displacement than your actual engine)?

If so, this theoretically should allow you to run a full aftermarket higher-flowing (and better sounding) exhaust system with a good tune while still maintaining your full HD warranty because you're using a tune from the SE-PST (albeit not one for your actual bike's components) and not an aftermarket tuner, correct?

Or am I thinking in fantasy land?