I have a dilema...

My 2019 (05/2019) M8 114 Fat Boy almost certainly has the oil pump without the gasket.
So, as I have a new cam cover to go on, I'm thinking that, while I'm in there, replacing the oil pump and cam plate.
Thing is, I see that I have a couple of options:
1. H-D Oil Pump Assembly (#62400206) &, something like, a FEULING Cam Plate (#8037B)
2. Screamin' Eagle Pro Billet Cam Plate with Super Sucker Oil Pump (albeit mega $$$)

At this moment in time I'm only thinking Stage 1 mods, so option 2 seems a bit overkill.
However, IF I decide to go Stage II with a cam swap later down the line, should I future proof now.

Is there anything else to consider...Inner Cam Bearing, Cam Chain Tensioner,...?

Thoughts!?

 

Pardon me while I throw a bucket of cold water over your deliberations.

I think there was one case reported on here of a Softail sumping, and that was not confirmed as far as I know. Changing the oil pump because of a non existent problem may be seen as overkill.

The OEM cam plate, while not as snazzy or sexy as the Feuling or S&S offerings, does the task perfectly well, again a fix for a non existent problem.

Cam chain tensioner as above.

If you go to Stage 2, best practice would dictate a new cam bearing to match the new cam shaft. Look on ebay for a Koyo B168 bearing. Again it doesn't have the sexy packaging of the Screaming Eagle offering, but it is the same item and half the price.

In short all you will gain with your proposals is a large hole in your bank balance and no discernible gain.

But it's your £££££££££ after all said and done.

If you have any other fireworks you'd like me to **** on, don't hesitate to ask

 

That's fine...the question is out there for people to respond/discuss whether it's pi$$ing on a bonfire or not!
I'm not sure that Softail sumping is a non existent problem...it does beg the question as to 'Why did H-D change the oil pump design' (to include a gasket) from late 2019 onwards.
As for the cam plate, don't care about snazzy or sexy (after all, you don't see it) but my understanding is that it offers better oil flow.

 

Ease of manufacturing and keeping the logistic chain simple is what I'd put my money on as the reason.

The oil pump was redesigned because of reported sumping in the touring models, of which there is the oil cooled and the twin cooled models with two different oil pumps.

The Softails and oil cooled touring models share the same model oil pump.

Would it make sense for HD to use the new pump only for the oil cooled touring machines and continue with the original pump for the Softails? No, not really because you would then have three different oil pumps in your logistics and manufacturing chain = more complication = more cost.

Instead they fitted a new common pump to all the oil cooled M8's, and a new pump to the twin cooled M8's, problem solved, even where there wasn't a problem.

Better oil flow, ok, but does the M8 suffer from oil starvation? Again S&S and Feuling are offering a solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

Spending money on things that don't need fixing is the tried and noble way of HD ownership, I've done it enough myself , all I'm trying to say is don't be under any illusion you're "curing" something. All the parts you have considered will basically improve your bike by the square root of sweet F.A.

Have at it as you will.

Eta apart from the Koyo bearing, that is a smart move.

 

If you are opening it up and plan on keeping the bike for awhile, I would look at either the Fuel Moto or Zippers Stage 2 complete kits. Yes, it will be a few bucks but you will love the extra performance especially the torque. Assuming you have a tuner and exhaust, the stage 2 kits include:

Your choice of cams: I went with the redshift 468
Cam bearing
Lifters
All gaskets
Adjustable push rods

For my 22 street bob I also did the S&S cam chain tensioner, oil pump, and cam plate. The oil pump does not come with the rear gasket so you have to get one from harley

I debated doing a stage 2 for a long time but with the results, I am glad I did.

 

I installed this unit on my '23 Breakout. The initial installation broke loose after hitting a hard bump. I questioned the durability on the initial install due to the fact that the curvature of the billet unit does not match the fender. In short, the unit needs to have more arc to fit properly. Since the light is affixed with 3M VHB tape (thin), and JB Weld Steel Stik, this curvature difference becomes a problem. Here is the unit I'm referencing, part number CD1054-1.

The associated video on CD's website (created by an independent You-Tuber) even makes mention of this:
He's incorrect in one aspect. The billet light is not flexible as he infers. It's the fender itself that flexes to accommodate the uneven curvature of the light (I saw this with my own eyes; billet is inflexible anyway). You have to push it really hard to match the curvature, and when you do, the rear sides of the fender spread to make that happen. This means that there is constant pressure on the light that works to disengage it from the fender. Not good. The older models and '23 Breakout have the same HD rear fender part number.

I ended up re-installing the light with two pieces of VHB. This provided more contact and adhesive area without causing the fender to flex. We'll see how it holds up over time, but the adhesion is much better with my changes. CD makes great products, but I cannot recommend this light if their intentional design calls for flexing the fender for proper installation. Beyond that, it's an excellent addition to the bike.

For reference:



The additional strip of 3M tape removes most of the gaps and creates a much better bond without causing the fender to flex. Maybe one person will find this helpful. LOL!

 

If It were me deciding this now and what I know now, even going with stage 2 maxed out, I would just get the 2020 model year+ stock OEM camplate and oil pump system.
The billet camplates are not very tolerant of run out. I assume the SE one is the most tolerant because HD is selling it for all M8 bikes without any warning or instructions to check run out. I'm assuming its toleranced enough to handle more run out than the S&S and Feuling parts.
But we're seeing George Bryce Star using the standard OEM pump and plate with higher performance bikes.

If I knew what I know now, I wouldn't have bothered with S&S Tappet Cuffs, and getting the SE plate and pump. I would just have swapped to the new model year version, and used the Fuelmoto tool and kit to install a new cam bearing.
Everything else I'd keep the same.

 

Old biker trick... pour laquer thinner into your grip, slosh it around, pour it out and slap it on to your bar or TBW section and let it set up.

 

WD40 does the same. It provides some lube, but once it dries it creates a super tight bond.

 

I have been talking to the guy who dyno tunes my bikes, and he knows a thing or two about building high performance HD motors.

The upshot is, that even if you are doing a fairly aggressive stage 2 - i.e. with a bigger cam that needs new valve springs - there is absolutely zero benefit in putting an expensive new cam plate and oil pump in there. (Here's looking at you Fueling, S&S and SE). Zero benefit. Stock is just fine.

If you have a very early twin cam, then check the oil pump number and if it is the original OEM oil pump, then it MAY benefit you to fit a later HD oil pump from 2019+. No need for screamin eagle or anything else, just a later model oil pump for peace of mind. About £75 or so.

If you are doing a major big bore, high HP motor, then you may see some benefit from one of the expensive Carlos Fandango cam plates and oil pumps.

In any case, if you are doing a cam change, it's good practice to swap the inner cam bearing to a full complement version. And fit a new bearing every time you swap the cam.

So yeah - I agree with Phil. Save the grand that they want for the cam plate and Gucci oil pump.