When to change over to Synthetic on a New SGS
#21
03-26-2014, 04:39 PM
That was good info on the Syn3 being a blend. For a while, Harley was selling oil marked as a blend of dino and syn. I think I may still have a bottle of the blend stuff in the garage. When they started pushing Syn3, they stopped selling the blend stuff since I have not seen it on the shelf for a while. I've tried all syn, and different combos of that. Now I run the Harley primary lube in there and full synthetic in the engine and syn gear lube in the tranny.
#22
03-26-2014, 10:21 PM
Cruiser
I am not a dealer, nor expert in oils, but I do work for and Oil and Gas company. I also worked for companies that produced the base stock for Synthetic Oil called Group IV PAO's (PolyalphaOlefins).
SYN3 is not 100% Synthetic Oil and do not let MOCO tell you otherwise.
According to the "Material Safety Data Sheet" for H-D's SYN3, it is chemically a blend of 60% synthetic and 40% petroleum oils.
Manufactured by - Citgo Petroleum.
It is not illegal but it's certainly deceptive. The Courts have ruled that it is legal to advertise a product that has a chemical composition that includes at least SOME synthetic properties as a "synthetic lubricant".. in the case of SYN3, that oil is a 60/40 blend and not a true, 100% synthetic or anything even close to it.
Pure synthetics are PAO based only such as Mobil 1, Redline, Amsoil. Because the motorcycle industry for oils do not rate them like for automobiles, they do not have to disclose the blends in oils. This is where SYN3 gets around this.
I am not advocating anything here other than to pick and chose your oil based on your own research and recommendations. Harley wants you to buy their over priced oil and claim that without it, your engine will fail and warranty will not be honored. BS! All is needed is a good quality oil, change intervals done properly and if failure of a part(s) occurs during warranty that the MOCO must honor it.
The reason a CVO can claim they use SYN3 from the start is that it is a SYN/BLEND. No engine manufacturer both automotive nor motorcycle recommends breaking in a engine on Pure Synthetic Oil.
But it is your choice!
SYN3 is not 100% Synthetic Oil and do not let MOCO tell you otherwise.
According to the "Material Safety Data Sheet" for H-D's SYN3, it is chemically a blend of 60% synthetic and 40% petroleum oils.
Manufactured by - Citgo Petroleum.
It is not illegal but it's certainly deceptive. The Courts have ruled that it is legal to advertise a product that has a chemical composition that includes at least SOME synthetic properties as a "synthetic lubricant".. in the case of SYN3, that oil is a 60/40 blend and not a true, 100% synthetic or anything even close to it.
Pure synthetics are PAO based only such as Mobil 1, Redline, Amsoil. Because the motorcycle industry for oils do not rate them like for automobiles, they do not have to disclose the blends in oils. This is where SYN3 gets around this.
I am not advocating anything here other than to pick and chose your oil based on your own research and recommendations. Harley wants you to buy their over priced oil and claim that without it, your engine will fail and warranty will not be honored. BS! All is needed is a good quality oil, change intervals done properly and if failure of a part(s) occurs during warranty that the MOCO must honor it.
The reason a CVO can claim they use SYN3 from the start is that it is a SYN/BLEND. No engine manufacturer both automotive nor motorcycle recommends breaking in a engine on Pure Synthetic Oil.
But it is your choice!
#23
03-28-2014, 06:31 AM
#25
03-28-2014, 06:50 AM
Cruiser
I thought a full Synthetic Oil was way to slick for brake in. The parts don't wear together or with each other when braking in with a full Synthetic. In other work it lubes to well. I thought a motor was not fully broke in tell about 2500 miles. That what S&S motor recommends. I always waiting until 2500 mile before I started adding full Synthetic. I think brake in is the most important thing to making a motor last. But what do I know.
Last edited by little5150; 03-28-2014 at 06:54 AM.
#26
03-28-2014, 10:04 AM
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dhermann43, I only want to inform and not make it gospel for anyone. All need to make their own choices in this area.
I too, run with HD SYN3 for the first oil change at 1000 miles. After that, I use what I feel is the best Synthetic Oil for my application. I am not going to sway anyone which is best since we all have our own favorites.
To answer little5150 question. I am pretty well familiar with Mobil 1. I will say this, I do exclusively use this oil in my cars! Always have since 1982) and is standard OEM oil for my 2010 Camaro SS. It is 100% PAO based synthetic oil with additives.
Mobil 1 makes the automotive brand and the motorcycle 4 cycle brand. Different additives are what separate the two products, but the base stock is still the same.
I have not yet used Mobil 1 Motorcycle oil yet on any of my motorcycles. I have wanted to go with Mobil 1 MC on my Ultra the next oil change.
I too, run with HD SYN3 for the first oil change at 1000 miles. After that, I use what I feel is the best Synthetic Oil for my application. I am not going to sway anyone which is best since we all have our own favorites.
To answer little5150 question. I am pretty well familiar with Mobil 1. I will say this, I do exclusively use this oil in my cars! Always have since 1982) and is standard OEM oil for my 2010 Camaro SS. It is 100% PAO based synthetic oil with additives.
Mobil 1 makes the automotive brand and the motorcycle 4 cycle brand. Different additives are what separate the two products, but the base stock is still the same.
I have not yet used Mobil 1 Motorcycle oil yet on any of my motorcycles. I have wanted to go with Mobil 1 MC on my Ultra the next oil change.
Last edited by texaspirate; 03-28-2014 at 10:06 AM.
#27
03-28-2014, 10:17 AM
Cruiser
#28
03-28-2014, 10:26 AM
Seasoned HDF Member
dhermann43, I only want to inform and not make it gospel for anyone. All need to make their own choices in this area.
I too, run with HD SYN3 for the first oil change at 1000 miles. After that, I use what I feel is the best Synthetic Oil for my application. I am not going to sway anyone which is best since we all have our own favorites.
To answer little5150 question. I am pretty well familiar with Mobil 1. I will say this, I do exclusively use this oil in my cars! Always have since 1982) and is standard OEM oil for my 2010 Camaro SS. It is 100% PAO based synthetic oil with additives.
Mobil 1 makes the automotive brand and the motorcycle 4 cycle brand. Different additives are what separate the two products, but the base stock is still the same.
I have not yet used Mobil 1 Motorcycle oil yet on any of my motorcycles. I have wanted to go with Mobil 1 MC on my Ultra the next oil change.
I too, run with HD SYN3 for the first oil change at 1000 miles. After that, I use what I feel is the best Synthetic Oil for my application. I am not going to sway anyone which is best since we all have our own favorites.
To answer little5150 question. I am pretty well familiar with Mobil 1. I will say this, I do exclusively use this oil in my cars! Always have since 1982) and is standard OEM oil for my 2010 Camaro SS. It is 100% PAO based synthetic oil with additives.
Mobil 1 makes the automotive brand and the motorcycle 4 cycle brand. Different additives are what separate the two products, but the base stock is still the same.
I have not yet used Mobil 1 Motorcycle oil yet on any of my motorcycles. I have wanted to go with Mobil 1 MC on my Ultra the next oil change.
#29
03-28-2014, 11:12 AM
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soft 02, this is another marketing tool for people and to allow others to claim some sort of superiority over another.
Here is a fact between the two Groups.
Group IV base oils are polyalphaolefins (PAOs). These synthetic base oils are made through a process called synthesizing. They have a much broader temperature range and are great for use in extreme cold conditions and high heat applications.
Group V base oils are classified as all other base oils, including silicone, phosphate ester, polyalkylene glycol (PAG), polyolester, biolubes, etc. These base oils are at times mixed with other base stocks to enhance the oil’s properties. An example would be a PAO-based compressor oil that is mixed with a polyolester. Esters are common Group V base oils used in different lubricant formulations to improve the properties of the existing base oil. Ester oils can take more abuse at higher temperatures and will provide superior detergency compared to a PAO synthetic base oil, which in turn increases the hours of use.
Here is a fact between the two Groups.
Group IV base oils are polyalphaolefins (PAOs). These synthetic base oils are made through a process called synthesizing. They have a much broader temperature range and are great for use in extreme cold conditions and high heat applications.
Group V base oils are classified as all other base oils, including silicone, phosphate ester, polyalkylene glycol (PAG), polyolester, biolubes, etc. These base oils are at times mixed with other base stocks to enhance the oil’s properties. An example would be a PAO-based compressor oil that is mixed with a polyolester. Esters are common Group V base oils used in different lubricant formulations to improve the properties of the existing base oil. Ester oils can take more abuse at higher temperatures and will provide superior detergency compared to a PAO synthetic base oil, which in turn increases the hours of use.
Last edited by texaspirate; 03-28-2014 at 11:14 AM.
#30
03-28-2014, 11:15 AM
Seasoned HDF Member