2016 FLHTK - I bought the bike with Fuel Moto setup = Jackpot header, Jackpot slip ons, and air cleaner using OEM cover. The bike was setup to a tune from Fuel Moto. Ran fantastic, but with a little old car smell that was similar to my 2015 SGS when I ran the same setup from FM. With my SGS I ran the FM setup for 50k miles no issues. That smell is no biggie and just from taking the CAT out, I get that.

But I wanted something a little quieter for this bike and I'm about to head out for some touring. So, I put some basically brand new OEM slip on mufflers back on and kept the decatted FM header and air cleaner. The bike seems to run fine, I don't mind the sound, and I don't notice any power difference at all. However, the old car smell is a bit stronger and contrary to normal I also noticed a slight burned fuel smell tonight when I was really getting on it..faint but there. I think I'm running rich now. Is this a bad thing? Previous owner "cannot find the tuner" he used. So, do I purchase a tuner from FM and if so, do I go with a canned tune from them or get another Power Vision type tuner? Is this really needed? The bike hasn't blown up, just smells more I think.

Thanks!

 

It's not going to blow up running rich. If anything it'll run a tad cooler but with poorer gas mileage. Pull the plugs and see how they look. If they aren't all gummed up and black then you'll be fine. I'd rather run my bikes on the rich side vs. lean.

 

As mentioned above... your are running rich.... The big unknown is how rich.....??

Your tune was set up for a freer flowing system. When you put the OEM mufflers back on, you put restrictions into that system the tune was set up for... You decreased air flow, but kept the same amount of fuel...

The factory O2 sensors only adjust the closed loop section of the tune, which is only a portion of the tune, and they are narrowband sensors so they can only adjust so much... the rest of the tune, open loop portions, will be rich... When getting on it, you are in the open loop portions of the tune, and the smell of fuel while doing that confirms it's pretty rich...

Too much fuel can be bad, as it can wash the oil film off the cylinder walls, causing increased cylinder/piston ring wear. .. I suspect you're not running THAT rich, but I can't say for sure... There probably wasn't any timing adjustments (or few and minor changes) to a Stage I tune, so you should be fine with detonation issues... especially running rich..

IMHO.... I don't need to pull every last ounce of HP out of my engines, even the modded ones (well, that would be all of them)... I like to run the timing on the conservative side, and AFRs that aren't too lean or too rich.. I won't run a bike that has a tune that was not set up for that bike... you may not damage the engine, but you will know it is not running near it's potential....

If I were you, I would buy a PowerVision tuner from FuelMoto with a tune for your combination of mods. I would also run a couple auto tune sessions, to dial in your specifc VE tables to the tune....

 

very good advise

 

This is solid info and I appreciate you taking the time to answer. I called fuel Moto and Harley to get two different perspectives on options for flashing the ECU versus a new tuner. It all depends on how I go with the modifications. Likely fork the money for a Power Vision so I can do whatever down the road with options.

 

UPDATE: I'm just talking this out loud here for my mental being, but I love suggestions too, read if you like. Thanks.

Bike WAS running rich. I pulled my air filter and it was filthy. This leads me to my listed options after discussing with both Harley and Fuel Moto. The purpose of this bike is for touring, I've had several HDs in the past and I don't care much about a performance type of exhaust on this bike. I prefer it to run quiet and no old car smell. If the quieter exhaust options cool the bike down, that's the plus side I would be looking for. Other than that, I want to hear myself and the radio on this one.

Currently installed on the bike is a full stage 1 with high flow air cleaner, decat header, and slip ons = no tuner on hand.

Options:
1) Reinstall stock setup all the way - put headers, OEM mufflers and OEM air intake all back on = will cost $50 to flash ecu back to stock mapping from Harley. No tuner needed, so saving money.

2) Keep the high flow air filter and slip ons, but install the OEM header with cat to quiet down some (no old car smell) = will need a tuner for proper mapping bc of air intake. But I'm not sure a high flow air filter is worth it if using the OEM header with cat. Seems like a waste of money to purchase a tuner just to run a high flow air filter. Unless I hear otherwise. Everything I've read on here says with OEM header the OEM air intake is enough. Would the high flow air filter and tune still cool the bike down some with running the OEM header and cat in place?

3) OEM header and slip ons for sound, run OEM air filter = cost $50 to flash ecu back to stock, no purchase of tuner needed. I ran my 15 StreetGlide like this for about a year and never had any issues. Just added a bit more mellow sound which I like, but not looking for performance gain.

That's where I'm at this week in the garage and gearing bike up for long road trip soon.

 

Based on all your comments, it sounds to me like you will be most happy with option #3.....

Just a couple thoughts on #2...

IMHO....

With high flow A/C and tune, on a bike with OEM header & cat, I seriously doubt you will notice it running cooler... that cat kicks out some heat, and in warmer weather, it's at you and your passenger's feet.. my wife knew immediately when I lost the OEM cat...

The cat doesn't restrict flow as much as most people think, that's why when you do high flow A/C and high flow mufflers, most still recommend a tune... I've flashed a stock improved tune on a couple friend's bikes that were all OEM, and they liked it... placebo effect? Maybe, maybe not.. A stage I and tune should be a better improvement... Will it be a noticeable seat-of-the-pants difference over all OEM...??? Depends on your sensitivity to performance... .

 

I have the fuel moto jackpot header, air cleaner an tune but with CR570 cams. It's a canned tune from Fuel Moto. I've swapped slip on's a few times an didn't notice much of a change except when I put a set of V&H slip on's on it. It ran the best it's ever ran BUT it was too quiet for me. I put some jackpot slip on's on it an it runs very good but I swear it ran better with the V&H's! I was wanting to remove a little baffling but they have full length baffles that are welded in. I have them listed for sale but if they don't sell it might not be a bad thing to have them to swap back to.

I was thinking of doing some data logging or auto tuning. I think I might be a tad lean. it seems to run warm an have an occasional decel pop. Maybe I'll take it for a dyno pull an get a base before doing anything.

 

UPDATE:
I went with option 3. Bike now has new take off stock header and air cleaner and was flashed back to stock tune. Runs perfect for what I want. I don't think I notice much of a difference in seat of the pants power at all. The old car smell is GONE, so I love that! The bike has a more mellow exhaust note now for touring. I'm sure I'll get some heat from the cat but whatever. This works for me.

I will likely sell the Jackpot header and high flow air cleaner setup. Fackkk, I'm getting old I guess LOL.

 

How right do you want it? How much do you want to spend? How many mods are in your future?

I started where you are with a Power Vision from Fuel Moto. They offer free tunes when you perform mods that will get you pretty close. On my last round of upgrades, see thread below, I upgraded to the Target Tune version. Bit of a learning curve, but I’m enjoying the capability of being able to precisely dial it in. It’s already pointed out a mild exhaust leak, which I’ll address this weekend. Well worth the money to get a legit tuner if you play with the combo, or plan to upgrade further. Buy once, cry once.