I'm in the new frame = better camp.

I totally get the argument on cost savings. But think about the efforts made to get the new M8 motor out to the public. I doubt they want to unravel the momentum by providing an inferior product just to save costs. No, I believe the biggest war Harley is fighting is with itself. They want to make a better bike, but the Willie G influence still has some legacy there. And that legacy is heritage. Which really means stick with what you know sells.

But there has been a changing of the guard at the Moco, and with it, a significant paradigm shift that understands that to be profitable in the future, they will need to up the ante.

I think the new frame will be part of that. It could be a win/win. Fingers crossed.

 

I rode a '17 "Lumphead" yesterday....No thanks, What an utterly dull motorcycle.
Underpowered, to say the least.


It will appeal to the shorts and flip flops crowd though.

 

That's very interesting. I'm curious as to what you ride that you feel the new bikes are under powered? Not that I'm disagreeing totally. I feel they are the strongest stock bike yet and as I've said - almost there.

But I also said one short ride on the V-Rod made the M8 slow by comparison. Both of which make my bike very slow by comparison unfortunately.

 

for comparison purposes, the Indian Roadmaster frame is aluminum and weighs 944 lbs wet, the 17 Ultra Limited weighs 908 lbs.

 

It's also a bigger bike. And it goes to show that Polaris is worse at controlling weight than Harley.

Poo-poo it all y'all like, a lighter bike will always be the more entertaining to ride.

 

Most of the $15k-$22k Dual Sport bikes now come with electronic adjustable suspensions with three ride modes that the rider can select, 125 to 160 HP motors, and up to 8 gallons of gas. You'd sure think that for the high prices of Harley and or Indian / Polaris touring bikes the manufacturers would be at least coming up with modern electronic adjustable front and rear suspensions, ride modes, lean angle ABS, and a little bit bigger gas tanks like the less expensive dual sport bikes now come with.

 

We can have even more fun with twins, well provided a boxer counts. My 15 R1200RT weighs in at 610 or so, the SG is two hundred more. That little R1200RT. Of course there is a bit of a torque difference being smaller, but the R1200RT will dyno to 113hp and 82lb torque.

Sitting side by side in my garage and for the life of me I cannot figure out what HD's excuse is with the weight. I like the SG but damn that RT just makes me wonder what century the SG is from

 

I'll agree to that in a general sense but a lot has to do with where an individual lives and rides. Grew up in Baltimore and learned to ride the surrounding country side and hills. Roads and conditions back there warrant a smaller lighter bike. Get out west a bit with the wide open plains or real mountains you like some weight on that sled, cross winds out here can be deadly if you aren't nailed to the rode with some weight behind you.

Riding habits and skillz are the next big issue , most riders can't use a lighter bike to it's potential. Not going to go into the hardware, pegs, pipes and primary's I've roached getting busy on a twisty somewhere. It ain't sparking you ain't riding it.

 

Agreed - but you can drop 200 lbs and still have a heavy bike. Plus the newer tech provides the rider with an easier platform on which to excel. Basically it makes an average rider an excellent rider. My KTM dirt bike would be one example of that. I could do no wrong on that bike. No matter how bad I screwed up it saved my ***.

 

I live 35 minutes from Baltimore and 2 minutes to the country roads. A lighter bike will whip a heavy bike here. I've also spent extensive time riding out west on both big Harleys and lighter BMWs. I've been in 50mph Kansas winds on a GS Adventure, and I was just fine. Been in the same on an Ultra and thought I was going to die.

"Road hugging weight" will always be trumped by superior aerodynamics and suspension.