All the major oil suppliers employee Chemical and Mechanical Engineers. They all do extensive R & D. They all produce full synthetic products that will provide performance characteristics that you and I will never be able to distinguish between without spending a lot of time, money, and effort doing oil analysis and wear studies. There are those who have done such evaluations and conclude that one is better than another "statistically" . That statistical difference is a gnat on a bull's ***. For most of us that may put 100,000 miles on a bike, the difference in what quality major brand synthetic oil we use will never show up in performance or reliability. I am speaking about engine oil.

My dad drove pickup trucks hard, pulling horse trailers all over the Southwest back in the 60s 70s, 80s. He used Amalie dyno oil, changed every 5000 miles, traded trucks about 200,000 miles every 3 years. Never ever had a lubrication related problem. What we have today is awesome and worrying about what brand is like worrying about what brand gasoline to use in your lawnmower.

 

This is how we ALL get caught up in marketing and believe me, I am in no way knocking what you wrote. We all love to read labels, (INCLUDING ME) read ads, let the major marketing firms get inside our heads to buy their product. These marketing firms use psychologists just for this purpose.

Bottom line and REAL question to you and everyone else, where is the proof?

Its a question NO ONE asks from the company they buy their expensive oil from.
Why do we not ask that company, PROVE IT TO ME that your oil will have my engine experience less wear then if I use the other brands.
Know why? they can not show you proof using standard tests. Bottom line is all oils have to meet the standard on the side of the bottle and that includes wear.

So when you say you have not seen one of those impressive looking oil tests, that is simply because no one can show you one, the oil company that you choose for your bike oil can not show you any proof either. EXCEPT AMSOIL.

We should all be concerned about one thing, wear but we allow companies to side track us to buy expensive products based on smoke and mirrors, yet the wear is the same.

So all I ask from oil companies is show me the proof of their oil performing better then the others. only one company does that, AMSOIL.

So here is AMSOILS own test using INDUSTRY Standard tests comparing other companies products WITH THEIR OWN and in those tests, it shows you one oil, VALVOLINE Conventional Motorcycle oil doing better WHEN IT COMES TO WEAR, then many synthetics and Boutique oils, not by a lot at all but just the fact that it holds its own kind of shows how much fluff is in the marketing of many oils. Pretty impressive when you can buy it for $4. a quart.

I do not use Amsoil oil but I do give them credit for showing their oil compared to other companies products using standard tests. I use quality conventional oil because I believe in changing a couple times a year, rather then use a syn and extend.

People can knock Amsoil all they want, I have no idea why they would, the ONLY company out there that actually PROVES and backs up their ads with facts.
I do NOT agree with them about extending oil changes, never understand why someone would, to me, changing the oil is a hell of a lot more fun then washing the bike. *L*

Anyway, here IS a comparison, its been all over the internet for years, published by Amsoil but the interesting part is, conventional Valvoline 20/50 motorcycle oil is right in the middle of the pack when it comes to wear on the four ball wear test, page 13 and all so did better then one of the most expensive oils on the market, pretty impressive for a $4. oil.
Page 15 shows a gear wear test, just as good as all the other oils that passed the test, Harley 360 good as well.

Hmmmm ...
so anyway, hope you all know Im just having a conversation here, not debating or pushing anything, other then facts and common sense and I am not promoting Amsoil but I am giving them credit for showing actual tests, something NO other company can do ... and in that test, it shows conventional oil beating many expensive synthetics when it comes to WEAR.
http://wpc.1c96.edgecastcdn.net/001C...ved/index.html

I also understand your statement about day "one" oils being compared to down the road, after wear and tear, but again, since we have no test, we dont know if $4 oil protects better at 3,500 miles or if $14 oil protects better at 3,500 miles. But in these wear tests, these oils are punished way past those mileage numbers in a lab test and still some conventional protect better.
Also we do not want to look at the fact, that the only issue with excessive wear in OLD flat tappet engines, has been with synthetic oil, thought it was supposed to be so superior?. Again, I am not in anyway knocking synthetic oil, just trying to cut down on over hyped marketing vs common sense comparison.

For what its worth, if I was going to run a bike 5 to 10,000 miles without an oil change, without question I would choose a synthetic oil and gosh if it was easy to buy Amsoil and at a competitive price that would be one of my first choices. They back up everything they do with real tests.
But since I change every 3000 miles or so, Ill just choose the oil that produces less wear. So I kind of agree with you that synthetic will be more stable in the long run but I want the oil that produces less wear for the short run, 3000 miles or so. Some credit does go to some synthetics for this, you will see in the tests, when it comes to wear, Amsoil does lead the pack and they prove it.

Mobile 1 pretty darn good as well and both synthetics at the top of the list.
This long post/rant also shows in those same tests some very expensive boutique oils doing worse then conventional Valvoline. I do wish the synthetic Valvoline gets included the next time Amsoil does a test or was it so superior that it was left out on purpose?

 

.... you've got to be kidding me. not oil again, and again, and again.

 

OIL!
I learn something new all the time, welcome to page 7.

 

*L* You all gotta admit, even the people who are sick of oil threads just can't resist to post on that fact!

 

Good discussion here about oil, I have my preference but another important thing to consider is using a synthetic filter vs. a cellulose or paper filter. Synthetic will trap much smaller micron particles which a cellulose filter will not.

 

I recently switched over to the Napa race tech 10w60 full synthetic. It available in all Napa stores usually


$45 for 5 liters. with the new Hd SE extra 1.5 qt pan I put on the 120R, it makes changing the oil easier and the 60w is oh so quiet when warm. not like Mobil 1 where it sounds like everything is coming apart.


I still run the HD black filter.

 

=================

Yup,M1 v-twin syn 20w-50 came in a close 2nd to Amsoil in that test very well done extensive oil test Amsoil did a few yrs back.

And what surprised me was HD's syn3 came in i believe was 4th of the was it 17 bike oils tested.

Amsoil MCV syn 20w-50 had 1400ppm zddp & m1's v-twin syn 20w-50 had 1700ppm zddp which is a healthy addeddose of protection from scuffing/gailing etc due to visc break down in times of excessive heat and or when under max load @ WOT blowing some carbon out on a hot day!/LOL!!!

I run either m1's syn v-twin or spectro's syn bike oil both in 20w-50 grade in my 09 TC-96 FLHTCU.

BTW,i know amsoil tested well and has a great rep so I tried the Amsoil MCV 20w-50 syn for air cooled v-twins in my prior bike (06 Roadstar 1700 air cooled v-twin) and the top end valvetrain made more noise (esp in hotter temps right off the bat vs the m1 v-twin syn 20-50 i was running prior that had the top end mostly quiet no matter the temp/cond i was riding in.

So after approx 1k miles of riding with noisier top end with the amsoil it anoyed me enough to dump the Amsoil and put the m1 v-twin back in and the top end went back to its normal mostly quiet routine in any temp/cond so me & the bike were now both happy again so no more amsoil for me!!!/LOL!!!

Scott

 

delete

 

=========================

Since you like 10w-60wt maybe you would like to try this in your bike sometime.

scott

http://www.spectroshop.com/heavy-dut...60/prod_60.htm



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Heavy Duty
Spectro Heavy Duty Engine Oil is a superior motor lubricant designed specifically for use in American-made Harley® V-Twin engines. Crafted from superior petroleum stocks combined with the most advanced anti-wear, anti-carbon additive systems available, Spectro Heavy Duty extends component life, reduces wear, eliminates valve sticking. Meets all known OEM warranty requirements. Exceeds A.P.I. SF/SG – CD/CG - 4.
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