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Agree with some others...those SE 255's will give you some serious low end grunt as it. I prefer the 103" Big Bore, but nothing wrong with a good tune, the 255's and the 96"
mnpg that tw 21 cam is supposed to be great for low end torque and starts dropping off at five thousand, so i understand. mine rarely sees five k, as it's designed to be a torque motor. i'm gonna use the tw 21, 26, or the se 255 cams myself. don't need the hi rev help, as i don't ride it there. heck, if i wanted revs, i'd have got a gsxr suzuki, yeow, slap me please and bring me back to my senses.
Exactly. I'm a big fan of both Joe Minton (American Rider) and Donny Peterson (American Iron) and have learned much from both, although sometimes they have conflicting ideas.
Anyone that owns a Harley should be getting both those magazines, if for no other reasons, for their tech articles. Many questions posted constantly on these forums have been answered in detail in either one of those two magazines.
Here is Joe's Minton's articles on torque, and how to get some. Many riders get only "bar stool horsepower," which is absolutely useless on the road, and may actually be detrimental to the rpm range we usually ride in--just study the dyno charts carefully and see where the gains actually are.
The Andrew's 21 has given me two most noticeable gains--how it pulls on the hills, and how it is so much easier to maintain speed in the terrible winds we have in SW Minnesota.
Gas mileage also went up about two mpg.
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None of us can do everything, but we can all do something. That's why I am a Patriot Guard Rider. Iron Butt Association # 34783 SaddleSore 1000 in 2008
'06 Ultra, Screaming Eagle Air Cleaner, Stage One download,
Andrews 21G's (Joe Minton, American Rider), Boyeson X-Wing (American Iron test reports)
Stage Two modified stock pipes by ebay seller TKEMPLE
49 MPG @ 60 mph, 44 MPG @ 65 mph, 3367 mile mountain trip @70mph 42.89mpg
'75 Trident T150, '76 Trident T160 (see My Garage for pics!)
in a perfect world, we'd have the absolute recipie, but each of us has our performance and reliability requirements. for me, currently i've got my 08 sg stock 96" with the following, screamin eagle air cleaner, stage one download, rinehart slip ons, and a pre canned map from fuelmoto for same. it runs great and i'm happy. although i think i would even like it more with 103", heads by perhaps branch flowmetrics, and a set of andrews tw 21 cams or the se 255's. any ideas or thoughts on this combo? i am thinking it'd be a good recipie, but any additional input would be of value to me. i rarely go over 5 grand so low end torque is what i'm after. thanks in advance. i can't afford to experiment, and is much cheaper to use someone elses experience with mods.
mngp and iclick, good useful information, matter of fact, i followed your recommendation on tires for my streetglide iclick, the mu 90-16 sure got rid of the drunk sort of butt wiggle i had with the back of my sg. and mnpg, i also read both american iron and american rider. joe minton has done some great usable power builds with the 88 inch motor which should apply to the 96 i'm thinking. thanks guys you're a big help with this stuff.
in a perfect world, we'd have the absolute recipie, but each of us has our performance and reliability requirements. for me, currently i've got my 08 sg stock 96" with the following, screamin eagle air cleaner, stage one download, rinehart slip ons, and a pre canned map from fuelmoto for same. it runs great and i'm happy. although i think i would even like it more with 103", heads by perhaps branch flowmetrics, and a set of andrews tw 21 cams or the se 255's. any ideas or thoughts on this combo? i am thinking it'd be a good recipie, but any additional input would be of value to me. i rarely go over 5 grand so low end torque is what i'm after. thanks in advance. i can't afford to experiment, and is much cheaper to use someone elses experience with mods.
I picked the SE 255 cams because of the stock intake closing point. They will give you the same basic torque curve, just more torque because they aren't hog tied by very little overlap on the intake exhust overlap period, and due to the higher rate of lift needed to get to .550, will enhance the rpm range they will work in ( broader, higher) similar to the change seen when going from a flat tappet cam in a modern V8 to a roller design. My hope is that by doing some work on the heads, the motor will respond with more torque , but also more top end hp because the stock heads need help for sure. The better the heads flow, the further up the rpm range a certain cam can make power, but there is a risk of losing low speed torque if you go too far.
The Andrew's 21 has given me two most noticeable gains--how it pulls on the hills, and how it is so much easier to maintain speed in the terrible winds we have in SW Minnesota.
Two things turned me off about the 21's: (1) I couldn't find even one dyno chart on an otherwise stock TC96 and (2) Andrews told me they didn't think it would do what I wanted. What I told them I wanted was a modest TQ increase where the chart moved up about 5-6 ft/lbs. without shifting to the right, and with no loss anywhere in the low-end. I also stipulated that I didn't want to increase CR or make other mods to the engine.
My feeling was that the tech I spoke to didn't think too highly of the TW21, that it wasn't too much different than the stock cam. Looking at the specs I think this is relative, as like the 255 it is a very mild cam--but to get what I wanted a mild cam is exactly what was needed. I do think that a TW21 would be a good choice for someone looking for the effects I wanted. However I do think there would be some loss in the low-end with the TW21's without a CR increase, primarily based on the intake-close spec. The one big spec that caught my attention with the 255's was that one, and at 25° it is the earliest intake close I've seen on any cam. That means low-end torque, but at the expense of stellar top-end numbers. You can't have both without throwing more money at the engine, IMO, at minimum bumping the CR. I want to make clear that HP is higher with the 255's compared to stock, but I don't think the peak-HP increases as much as TQ with this cam.
__________________ 2007 Street Ultra
Stage 1½: Fuel Moto Power Package, SE255 cams.
mps1168 & iclick. I have almost the same set up as mps1168 (07 Ultra, SE A/C, old SE slipons, SERT) and am going to do the 103 w/SE 255's this winter. I like the way my slip ons sound right now. How much loader did they get when you went to the 103 or upgraded the cams (iclick) to SE 255s?
mps, have you tuned yet? what kind of numbers did you get? At this time, I'm going to try the HD down load for that configuration and have them rich it out a little. They are going to cc the heads and mill accordingly (keeping the compression at 10:1 or lower).
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A MN Patriot Guard Rider - because I care!
07 Patriot Edition Ultra Classic – US Marine Corps
SE 255 cams, SE A/C, SE II Slip-ons, SERT - 82HP/97TQ
