Cam change report

[iclick]

Originally Posted by matrix5 Lol. You can't leave it alone for the same reason none of us can either..... It's a disease with no cure. I'll also agree with the "abrupt" part, especially at low rpm. Seems to smooth out a bit after the engine is warm. I think I also noticed that it smooths out a bit when warm, and it is a bit softer since I inserted my lean AFR's from idle through the cruise range. It's now fine except for some detonation I just noticed on the last ride. More on that in another post. Regarding the PITA part, I just knew I didn't want to mess with pulling the rocker covers to keep the stock push rods. Well worth the $130 or whatever it was from Zanotti's, IMO. Sounds like you might do the same thing next time. One other thing that made mine easier was having the V&H Big Shots on there. No messing with the crossover for the rear cylinder. Undo 5 bolts (plus the floorboard) and the right side slips right off. That's an advantage of true-duals I hadn't thought of, but they do decrease low-end TQ, and that's sacred for me. The exhaust removal is a one-time deal, so I hopefully won't do it again. As for the pushrods, I think I would go with the adjustable next time, although I have no plans of changing. I really disliked the hassle of dealing with the rocker covers and plates.

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[garyhendley]

WOW GREAT JOB CONGRATS !!and ride safe

[Coolhawg6622]

I installed mine a year ago................255's, Ness Big Sucker. PC III and a LSR 2-1 on a stock 96". My first install and it took 6 hours "ish" with a buddy helping. I did use the S.E. adjustable pushrods so alls it took was a bolt cutter to remove the old ones. Jamie dynoed the bike for me and set up the PC III and it pulled damn near 85hp & 100 TQ when he was done. I dont believe I would go with the pushrods again because I did have the rear loosen up on me once so I am a bit parinoid........I have since "updated" some things and Jamie will be doing the dyno again here shortly....... (god its nice being within 45 mins from him!!)

I wouldnt hesitate a bit to put these cams in another touring bike......I ran with all the 103's last year and they werent happy compared to my investment.......

[iclick]

Originally Posted by IAMSWUTIAMS

So, the SE 255 cam is also chain drive, as is the stock cam, correct? So if you put in a chain drive cam, all you need is the cam and a cam install kit, correct? I'm thinking of going with the Woods TW6-6 in an '09 RG. Am I on the right track? Good write-up Iclick!

The SE255's are bolt-in cams with no additional changes like valve springs or increased compression needed. The guy I bought the 255's from did a write-up here on the difference between the 255's and TW6-6, the latter with a +4° gear. The gear advances the cams and essentially improves low-end and midrange.

His dyno chart shows TQ and HP increases with the Wood cam and gear, but if you'll read the entire thread you'll see that he mentions the 255's being superior on the low-end. I considered the Wood TW6-6 but with the gear the cost would be about $520 plus shipping, which was more than my budget allowed, and I didn't like the late intake-valve close (36° with the gear, 40° without). I also considered the Andrews TW21, which I found new on Ebay for only $210 shipped, but couldn't find even one rider who had installed it on a TC96 and Andrews doesn't give out dyno charts. With no info at all on its characteristics in a TC96 I passed.

You should also change the inner bearings, and the HD cam-install kit has seven bearings included, only two of which you'll need if you have a TC96. This is an all-TC kit, which has sufficient parts for all TC cam swaps. Those two bearings included in the kit are INA, which are same as stock and probably fine, but Torrington (Timkin) are only about $15 per pair and have double the number of needles, thus is a more robust bearing. The SE255 has a very high lift for a bolt-in cam (.550") and I thought the extra component stress from this higher lift might suggest using the better bearing. I could've used the existing stock bearings and saved money on the bearings and install/removal tools, but that might turn out to be penny wise and pound foolish.

[iclick]

As an update, my prediction that timing changes would be required has proven true. I have noticed some mild detonation in the low-end at roll-on, and I've already made some changes in the ignition-timing table. I'll probably not do more tests today, though. As I said originally, I did expect the bike to need timing changes, and that's not a problem. The very early intake close (25°) is increasing CCP and that means detonation if you're ECU settings are on the threshold like mine are.

I failed to mention that the cam-chain tensioners on the bike looked almost new, no wear except some barely perceptible marks on the surface. Considering the bike's 26K odometer reading I would say these tensioners will last indefinitely. I really don't believe gear drive is a wise option for these later TC's, and if you have a TC88/95 I would consider the option of upgrading to the modern roller chains. I believe Andrews and HD offer these.

[iclick]

Originally Posted by Coolhawg6622

I installed mine a year ago................255's, Ness Big Sucker. PC III and a LSR 2-1 on a stock 96". My first install and it took 6 hours "ish" with a buddy helping. I did use the S.E. adjustable pushrods so alls it took was a bolt cutter to remove the old ones.

Just for kicks I asked my dealer how much time to install cams with time-saver pushrods. Their answer was six hours and I politely told them their estimate was way too long. "I could do it in four hours," I told a tech friend at that shop. Well, now I think six hours is reasonable with adjustable pushrods. I would say that removing and re-installing the rocker components required at least several hours, so in those terms the $130 expenditure for adjustables may be money well spent. I don't think loosening is a common malady if they're locked properly, and I had adjustables (Rivco TaperLite) on my old RK Evo for >100K miles and never had a problem with them. I did have one come loose but that was because I forgot to tighten it. That makes a helluva noise when it happens and you definitely get the message.

Jamie dynoed the bike for me and set up the PC III and it pulled damn near 85hp & 100 TQ when he was done.

That's impressive. If I was at 94TQ/78HP with Jamie's Power Package before, I would guess I'm near your numbers now. I would guess a good five HP and TQ increase based on my butt dyno.

[iclick]

I just edited the original message to point out something I missed: The gas tank does not need to be removed. Just remove the two front and one rear bolt and pull it up an inch or two, holding it with whatever you have lying around.

[iclick]

Although these are minor points, I thought I would throw in another update two weeks after the install:

1. The SE255's are a bit more temperamental with lean AFR's than the stock cams at light throttle. I've added .2:1 more fuel (14.5 vs. 14.7) in the cruise range and this has made things civilized again without any noticeable decrease in gas mileage.

2. I'm still pleased with the performance of these cams. I feel that TQ between 2000-2300 or so may be only marginally better, but it definitely doesn't feel like it is decreased, and that's a very important point. Above that point and below 5K RPM it is very strong, providing usable power where I need it. I've had it to 5700 RPM so far and it does not feel like it is dying up in that range, although it admittedly is not known as a cam that will produce impressive peak-HP numbers at high RPM's. As I said before I rarely exceed 4K RPM's anyway.

3. Valve-train noise not higher than stock, which was a surprise. However, the mufflers are a bit louder and that is no surprise. What is weird is the exhaust tone at idle, which has a more single-cylinder sound than before, and that tone holds up to about 1250 RPM's, then smooths out more like normal. Idle is no rougher than stock, however, which is still not anywhere near smooth. This tone isn't bad, just different, and doesn't seem to be related to AFR's. This may be a factor of the mufflers' asymmetrical baffles and the cams combined. At roll-on it makes very pleasing sounds like you would expect.

[Our07Ultra]

Thanks for the write up. This was not only informative but also very well written. It is nice to hear about projects going well and the end result being what one expected.
And this ladies and gentlemen...is why I come to this forum..
I have gotten to the point where my project dedication time is translated into beers.
Simple bolt on..1 beer
3 hole fluid change.... 24 beers. Hey all the fluids need to drain properly!!!!
Wash, wax and detail... 1.75 Jack Daniels and a two liter of coke!!!
Enjoy the ride bro and thanks again!

[iclick]

Originally Posted by Our07Ultra

Thanks for the write up.

Glad to help.

I have gotten to the point where my project dedication time is translated into beers.

Simple bolt on..1 beer
3 hole fluid change.... 24 beers. Hey all the fluids need to drain properly!!!!

LOL! I can see you sitting, sipping, and waiting 'til every drop of oil is drained...and then a bit more time to make sure it's all out!

Wash, wax and detail... 1.75 Jack Daniels and a two liter of coke!!!
Enjoy the ride bro and thanks again!

Yuk! Sugary drinks ruin good liquor! For the cam job it is a two-case job the first time, maybe 1½-case the second. That's assuming you re-use the stock pushrods, less beer required if not. That needs to be factored into the total cost!