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Lots of posts about these chassis triangulators (Tru Track,AlloyArt TXR, Ride Str8)and Swing Arm kits (TruTrack makes their True Pivot, Custom Cycle Engineering now has one, Glide Pro, Sta Bo), but no discussion on how they relate to one another.Some talk of doing one or the other as if they are the same. They are not the same.
The chassis triangulators serve to limit slop in the side to side movements. I have the Alloy Art Touring XR on my '99 Road King w/ the Jims 120 motor and the first curve I dove into after installing it was absolutely AMAZING!! I felt like I was on rails, like on the sport bikes I used to ride when I was younger. WOW!! What isn't mentioned is when guys say they don't notice any problem w/the stock setup- You probablyWON'T notice- You'reUSED to it-Iwas. But when you add the triangulator the vast improvement is immediatley apparent and I felt this was among the best $400 I ever spent.
But let me not digress- the triangulators serve to limit side to side slop. There is nothing that limits front to rear or up and down motions. This is where the swing arm kits that serve to replace HD's cleve block setup come in (I think??).There are several versions, and I want some intelligent sources in this community to help me analyze how they can relate to the triangulators as I think they are complimentary to one another, while others have posted otherwise.
In '02 HD changed the cleve block setup in the swingarm to sperical bearings to eliminate this problem. I actually spoke to Jake at Glide-Pro this week and he mentioned that not all the swingarm kits are designed to do the same thing. He even mentioned that his kit could be combined w/the CCE's kit. He said his kit would limit up down movements in the swingarm inasmuch as under duress one side of the swingarm could move up while the other might move down- This is a no no. He said his kit incorporated just the right grade of material so as not to lose comfort of the rubbermount setup but maintain control w/regard to these up down movements. He thought the CCE kit was more about tightening up the rear end w/the spherical bearings and that using their kit of bearings combined w/his axle and control setup might be a welcome all around combo. He mentioned he was going to look into that soon.
I still believe these swingarm kits would complement the triangulation kits- Some have claimed there would be too harsh a ride or too much vibration. In fact I have read of excessive vibration on the AlloyArt Touring XR- which my bike has installed- But I have no such vibration and as there is an adjustment on the unit- I am surmising most jus' don't have it installed and adjusted correctly. Ifit's installed correctly you could expect the great satisfaction and comfortI haveexperienced. That being said- combine that w/a swingarm kit thatmay bedesigned to workon different issues and maybe the two are complimentary.
Unless of course the triangulation kits work differently andone may interfere w/one or more of the swingarm kits while another may not. Again each kit is designed to do something different.
SO which kits are good?? Which kits make sense to use w/one another????
The True Track- True Pivot rear axle setup does not mention spherical anything- So I don't know what they are offering and the Sta bo kits seem to be some sort of plastic/nylon??? delron they call it?? or something like that-I don't know what the material is or what it is designed to do in the application they offer.
So which kits or combination thereof makes the most sense for performance or comfort or both???
Do these kits indeed compliment eachother as I would tend to believe??? Which Triangulation kit would work with which swin
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I'll be interested in what you find with this thread. So far I don't find a need for combining any of the kits. Harley has actually done a good job of relieving vibration problems with the rubber mounted motor (& I really like the motor bouncing in the frame at idle). Earlier Harley's earned the reputation for shakin' parts off honestly, & when you stroked or bored one for more power it was good practice after a spirited ride to take an hour or two to tighten bolts. Rubber mounting has eliminated most of the lost parts & nearly all the retightening while makin' the ride more enjoyable. The one drawback I've experienced is the lateral flexibility the rubber mount system brought with it. The stabilizers you've mentioned appear to have solved that problem, so I don't see a need to do more than maintain the stock rubber mount system.
If you do combine some kits please be sure to post the results.
__________________
Jinks ('86 FXRS, '07 FLTR)
#64
Remember, "No good deed goes unpunished"
Excellent posting and I hope it brings forth a lot of comments. What I really wish we could all see is a posting with background on the stock design from a MoCo engineer. There are a lot of design constraints, goals and compromises in every component, and it would be nice to hear about the big picture of the swing arm/frame/engine combination. My concern in all these modifications is we don't overstress another component in our search for the canyon carving cruiser. --- Tom
I'd be interested is reading the responses, too. TCFAMY said it best about not overstressing the other components. In particular, I'm thinking about the oil pan screws into the aluminum transmission case.
I'd probably have one right now but I just can't get enthused about pulling off the exhaust system again just to gain access to the right swing arm pivot plate. That exhaust system is a bear to get off and on.
I'd be interested is reading the responses, too. TCFAMY said it best about not overstressing the other components. In particular, I'm thinking about the oil pan screws into the aluminum transmission case.
I'd probably have one right now but I just can't get enthused about pulling off the exhaust system again just to gain access to the right swing arm pivot plate. That exhaust system is a bear to get off and on.
I've offered my opinion on the oil pan bolt issue before, but here it is again & it's worth exactly what you're payin' for it...........
The only forces I see applied to those bolts are the ones that resist the lateral movement of the swing arm. Those forces are resisted to some extent by the stock rubber mounts anyway & can't amount to large forces or they would be causing other problems. I still have some reservations about designs like the TruTrack where impact from speed bump & curb types of obstructions can be transfered to the oil pan bolts, but I've seen photos of several TruTrack systems that have been ground down from dragging so even that may not be a problem. No one I can find has reported a failure of the bolts or the case.
BTW, you don't have to remove the exhaust, just loosen & lower it enough to get to that bottom bolt. Still a PITA, but not as bad as we make it sound.
__________________
Jinks ('86 FXRS, '07 FLTR)
#64
Remember, "No good deed goes unpunished"
I am not an engineer, however I have been a fabricator for many years, mainly off-road suspensions, lifts, and rollcages. Also this is just my opinion based on my narrow experience in the off-road racing field, sprinkled with alittle hotrod. By design of "triangulation" the TWR and Ridestr8 are more likely to allow less movement of the eng/trans as a unit. The alloy art and tru trac will allow more movement by design, but it is more than likely almost nill in the equation. We dont ride our baggers like race bikes so the stresses that they encounter in corners are limited, mainly due to the poor lean-over angles that baggers have. Thats not to say that some dont drag there floorboards, I do all the time, its just that you really cant lay an HD over that far. I cannot comment on the swingarm mount stiffiners/modifiers since I have not done any research on them. JMHO
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09 Electra Glide Classic
Flame Blue Pearl/Pewter Pearl
ABS/Cruise
Moe .......you are correct. The two devices are not the SAME.
Quote:
There is nothing that limits front to rear or up and down motions.
It is my understanding you don't want to limit the 'up and down' motion like you do the 'side to side' motion so that's barking up the wrong tree if you're thinking doing both is better.
In addition, I know of one person on this forum who has done both, that is, added something like Sta-bo with True Track and was NOT happy with the added vibration. I recall his solution was the TT stayed and Sta-bo bit the dust. Maybe he will jump in when he sees this thread.
I'll restate what I said a couple of weeks ago....If you have TT or whatever, no one can tell you they don't work. You know they do in the first couple of miles. It seems that those who say they don't work, and say they are a waste of money, or claim they don't feel anything wrong with their ride, have never ridden a bike with one, or just don't know any better.
My Accu-Track is probably the best thing I've added to my bike. That, fairing lowers and a Hayden M6.
Just a thought - I've written both Bagger mags on thisvery subject (6 mo. ago)and have yet to recieve a response. Both mags have tested ALL of the frame stabilizers but neither will commit to an opinionandthe suggestion of acomparison scaresthem to death. This seems to be true for all products - MoCo or aftermarket. This forum and particularly this posthas the most comprehensiveinformation I've found to date. I'm very interested in one of these units but I'm not willing to purchase and test all of them to find which one deserves my money. ConsequentlyI have yet to buy anything. I push my Streeter hard in the curves and have the scrapes to prove it and yes it feels hingedand yesI've scared myself a few times.
Thank you for this post. I will check back regularly and contributeanything I learn.
__________________
Just smart enough to know how stupid I am.
Just a thought - I've written both Bagger mags on thisvery subject (6 mo. ago)and have yet to recieve a response. Both mags have tested ALL of the frame stabilizers but neither will commit to an opinionandthe suggestion of acomparison scaresthem to death. This seems to be true for all products - MoCo or aftermarket. This forum and particularly this posthas the most comprehensiveinformation I've found to date. I'm very interested in one of these units but I'm not willing to purchase and test all of them to find which one deserves my money. ConsequentlyI have yet to buy anything. I push my Streeter hard in the curves and have the scrapes to prove it and yes it feels hingedand yesI've scared myself a few times.
Thank you for this post. I will check back regularly and contributeanything I learn.
If you're readin' all these posts you probably already know this, but you should probably send your money to the guy that wants the least of it. All the stabilizer units work. Limiting the lateral movement of the swing arm is all that needed to be done, & all of them accomplish that. The only major differences are cost, mounting method, ability to use a lift, & clearance issues. The True Track has the most clearance issues & would be the one I would suspect of causing damage to it's mounting points, but so far even with all the photos of True Track units that have been scrapped in turns no one has reported any failures that I can find. I seriously doubt you could go wrong with any system you choose, so I'd go for the best price.
__________________
Jinks ('86 FXRS, '07 FLTR)
#64
Remember, "No good deed goes unpunished"
TrueTrack/AlloyArtTXR/RideStr8/Stabo/CCE/GlidePro
