Piniongear has no more questions or complaints...

[piniongear]

For those who were following my other thread regarding 'question and complaint' I have found the solution to my problem. I just returned from Mancuso Harley here in Houston with my new set of ignition points........ These are part #32661-70......Made in Mexico of course. That beats China in my book any day! I took my calipers with me but did not have to use them to measure the foot size. One look told me this is what I needed.......... So my advise to anyone who has had a similar problem with points purchased elsewhere than Harley........ I suggest you try a dealer first before ordering online. The Blue Streak points are just junk that will not work on a Sportster. Reason being the shoe is too small to reach the cam. So it looks like I may be riding the old girl to Galveston's Lone Star Rally next week. Gotta get it running first. Off to the shop! pg

This ad is not displayed to registered and logged-in members. Register your free account today and become a member on HD Forums!

[nwpaironhead]

Wow! Them are purty!. Thanks for the part number. I'll be headin to Street Track 'n' Trail to order a set of my own.

[piniongear]

Installing the points, I thought maybe some pics will be of interest to someone.
Here are the Harley Davidson points set I got at the dealer.
Just like the old set I removed.
My bike has the terminals on the wires as shown........



The spring is pressed down and the terminal slips around the plastic boss on the points. No tools needed!



I highly recommend you get yourself a couple of these 'Quick Wedge' screwdrivers. Electricians use them.



The handle slides downward, towards the end, and the blades expand to hold small slotted screws so you can stick them into deep recesses...... Like the hold down screw for the points.........





Following post will detail the gap setting.
pg

[nwpaironhead]

I have been telling myself that I'm going to get one of those screwdrivers for years. Now, I've got one more reason. So, did you have to bend and twist those points to get them to set squarely and on the middle of the contact patch?

[piniongear]

The dealer supplied points fit just like they are supposed to. Easy installation! Lots of slot remains for gap adjustment.
Here we have the lobe for the front cylinder opening the points. I marked an 'F' on the cam bolt just for my own reference.
Because I already knew there is a .003 inch difference between the gap of front and back, I set the front cylinder points gap to .016.......



Next is the rear cylinder lobe opening the points. This gap measures .019, which is the result of setting the front to .016.
I have a (near) perfect balance on each side of that .018 gap specified..........



When I compare those Blue Streak points I bought from J&P to the HD points........... well, that is an impossibility to compare the two!
The Blue Streak did not fit, did not work, and are completely unusable.
The Harley points are just the opposite.
And, no thank you, I do not want to install points for a Chevrolet as long as HD is still making them.
As a side note...... I think the points I just bought were made in 2006.
So how many are sold? Not a great many I would think.

Anyway, how did it run after the points install?

The bike has not been started in over 18 months.
I turned on the fuel and pulled the choke out on the Bendix all the way.
First kick it fired right up...... then died within 10 seconds.
Kicked it again about 10 times with choke on and choke off.
Engine is DEAD. You know, that dull flat feeling like nothing is happening. And nothing was!

But I knew what the problem was. I removed both spark plugs and took them out in the sunlight. Both were dripping wet with fuel.
Well, it is getting fuel and I know it is getting spark so I kicked it through about 5 times without the plugs to clear the fuel out of the cylinders. I had quickly flooded the engine on the first try.

Then in went the plugs. Pulled choke on because this is a cold engine. The engine lit within about the first half kick.
The old girl sat there putt-putting in a perfect idle. Smooth and solid as the day I rebuilt her!
Looks like I will be two-timing my Dyna when Galveston week comes around. (I would not ride that Dyna to the Rally because it would be one in a cast of thousands.)
My Ironhead is almost the only Ironhead I have seen at the Rally the past 3 or 4 years. Everybody has a Twin-Cam though.

So the old Sporty always draws a few lookers. I sit off to the side just to watch the people stop and take a good gaze.

Typically, a group of 3 or 4 people will walk by the Ironhead and one of them will stop and call the others back.
You can always see one of them pointing out things (like a kick starter or solo seat) to others and most of them start talking about the Sportster they once had. A lot of people had Sportsters but do not have them today.

OK, now for a little humor.......
I also recommend everyone get one of these. You can get them at a parts house, they hold about a quart and a half of oil.
The blue item below the container is a on/off valve. All you do is fill it with the oil you want to pour into the bike, open the valve and the oil goes through a clear tube attached to the valve bottom......



Now the reason I used this was to pour 24ozs of oil into the primary case.
As I had said, my bike has sat for 18 months plus without being started. The oil level in the tank was very low. OK, base is loaded up.

I had a pan under the breather tube when I fired it up, expecting a quart of oil to dump.
Did not happen. There was a small 1 inch diameter drop of oil and that was it.

So, the oil had to have gone through the transfer valve into the primary and gearbox.
I drained both and got about 2 quarts of oil out of there instead of 1-1/2 pints.

Put the drain plugs back in and got out this wonderful container with the valve that, again, I highly recommend you get.
I poured 24ozs of 60wt oil carefully into the funnel and put the clear tube into the primary hole.
As I was going to open the blue valve next I lost my grip on the funnel handle and dumped about 20ozs of 60wt oil out on the garage floor!
Ha-Ha-Ha........ I thought, Piniongear....Master Mechanic!!! Yeah right. What a dummy. Jeeze, now I gotta go to the HD shop tomorrow for one more quart of 60wt oil. Oh well, I will ride the Sporty over there and give it a road test at the same time. Be careful out there guys!
pg

[98glider]

Thanks pg on the points I have them in my 84 and the manual calls for eletrinic ign. Now my question is I noticed that you marked the f and r for the cylinder how did you find this out ?Thanks

[piniongear]

Originally Posted by 98glider

Thanks pg on the points I have them in my 84 and the manual calls for eletrinic ign. Now my question is I noticed that you marked the f and r for the cylinder how did you find this out ?Thanks

98glider.......
The ignition cam has two lobes. One lobe is very sharp and the other lobe is very rounded.
The sharp lobe is for the front cylinder.
The rounded lobe is for the rear cylinder.
It actually makes no difference because each lobe opens the points which produces spark to both plugs.
What makes the difference is the cylinder/piston position.
If a cylinder is on the compression stroke there is a fuel/air mixture under compression in that cylinder. The spark ignites this mixture.

Now at this very same time, the other cylinder is on it's exhaust stroke and there is no fuel/air mixture present. This plug too fires, but the spark has nothing to ignite, so it is wasted.
That is why this Harley system is called 'The Waste Spark System.'

The reason I marked the cam lobe position(s) on the bolt head was only to let me see where the top of the lobe was at. The front cylinder has a sharp lobe, so it goes up and then down rather quickly.
The rear lobe, be more rounded, has quite a bit of travel between going up and then down. Hope that makes sense.
pg

[98glider]

So basically , you have to mark the position of the points before taking them out. Also when you check the gap on one side of the lobe aren't they the same on the other side of the lobe? Thanks

[piniongear]

Originally Posted by 98glider

So basically , you have to mark the position of the points before taking them out. Also when you check the gap on one side of the lobe aren't they the same on the other side of the lobe? Thanks

I may have added confusion by marking the cam locations on the bolt head. Sorry, this is not required.
I marked them only for my own satisfaction. It is not necessary to do that to install points.

The points are attached to the backing plate with a single screw. The pic is taken installing the points. If you take this screw out the points come right out.
They go back in (a new set) the same way.......



Since you have not loosened the back plate that the points attach to..... the ignition timing has not changed. If it was timed with the old points, then removing the old and putting in a new set of points does not require you to retime the engine. Only if the 2 nuts on the back plate have been loosened and the backplate rotated do you have to retime.

With regards to the gap setting on the two cam lobes:
In a perfect world if you set the gap to .018 on one lobe the other lobe would also be at .018.
This not being a perfect world though...... There is a possibility of uneven wear on the lobes and/or the advance unit not being installed concentrically on the shaft. Either condition will cause a difference. As long as the difference is .004 inch or less, all is OK.

If the difference is greater, then first thing to do is reset the advance unit into place and check the gaps. If the difference still exceeds the .004, then buy another ignition cam because the current one is worn. Hope that is clear.
pg

[98glider]

Thanks now I understand and alot clearer now. How do you no when the points need to be changed. I want to keep up on this bike making sure every thing is okay and learning while she is running good and being ready for when the time is needed as for future problems. Thanks again your illustration is better than the manual