Need a Harley historian

[harley-jones]

My Grandson is doing a paper for school on successful industries in the United States. I suggested that he do it on the history of the Harley MoCo. I gave him a few books that I had for him to use for research and he found some info at the Library. He called me today and asked me how and when the Black and Orange colors came to be. I didn't know the answer. Any one know? Thanks!

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[gmc]

Interesting ? I will guess when Scott Parker began flat tracking 1988 but it's only a guess.

[rome304]

MIGHT try a book called harley first 100years.

The color orange has been used as far back as 1915 in the Harley-Davidson print ads. Before that they used red. In 1913 when the factory race department was formed the riders had orange stipes and sleeves ,possibly to tell them from the crowd of dirt covered competitors. I'd have to say that its use grew out of racing.



Harley Davidson Recalls

[1931jamesw]

Interesting question. Let us know what your son finds out about this.

[JonnyD]

Just for info purposes, my Harley Archive book says the bar and shield logo was not used until 1910. The 1906 Harley shows two color options, for the first time; piano black and renault grey. The black tank also had orange lettering. The earliest (1903) model showed a beige colored lettering. Might help him on extra credit

[harley-jones]

Thanks for helping him out.

I have him watching this thread at his house. Any historical facts are much appreciated.

[Speeding Big Twin]

h-j, g'day to both you and your grandson. One book I'd recommend is called At The Creation: Myth, Reality, and the Origin of the Harley-Davidson Motorcycle, 1901-1909 by Herbert Wagner. Do a search on Google and you'll find it. And I've seen it on eBay at times. I haven't got it but one of my mates has and I read his copy some time ago.

Wagner traced the history of H-D back to the beginning and set the record straight regarding what really happened in the early years. I made some notes from my mate's copy but I haven't got anything about the black and orange so I can't answer that question.

As stated above, the Bar & Shield (which is a registered trademark of Harley-Davidson) did not appear until 1910 and I have that in my notes from Wagner's book. Something else mentioned in the book was a winged hourglass figure on a sixteen-page 1909 Harley-Davidson product catalog. And said figure apparently symbolised the motorcycle's ability to conquer space and time.

Official H-D publications I've read include 100 Years of Harley-Davidson by Willie G Davidson; The Big Book of Harley-Davidson by Thomas C Bolfert; and The Legend Begins by Harley-Davidson. I found the first two at local libraries here in Western Australia so they shouldn't be hard to locate. The third one I bought via a Harley dealer. However, even though all three of those books were authorised by H-D they all contain errors so caution is advised when using the information within. Even The Legend Begins clearly states on page 198 that some information regarding production figures and model descriptions 'is not to be regarded as totally accurate.'

You mentioned you gave your grandson a few books for research. Can you post the titles please because I'm always looking to check out more Harley books.

And lastly, two other books by Wagner are Harley-Davidson Lore: Origins Through Panhead 1903-1965; and Harley-Davidson® 1930-1941: Revolutionary Motorcycles & Those Who Rode Them. The first of those two consists mostly of photos and I found it at the library but the second one I borrowed from the mate I mentioned. Eric

[OhioSkully]

http://www.powerpassion.nl/harley/story-engels.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harley-Davidson



The ‘Bar & Shield’ logo is used for the first time in 1910 and was trademarked one year later.

[Trex]

Originally Posted by gmc

Interesting ? I will guess when Scott Parker began flat tracking 1988 but it's only a guess.

Bad guess.Were you serious?

[Da Gumpmeister]

THIS is ONLY a guess, and my guess, BUT I believe Rome is as close as I can get, also.
Think horse racing and jockeys. (Colored silks)
I "believe" the orange and black were like riding silks, so indeed, the spectators could tell, WHAT co. won the race.
"Back in the day", Co. that wore #1 plate, sold more scoots. The competition was VERY FIERCE on the tracks, for that prize. It meant success, for the company.

Indian's Scout, was kicking Harley's 45" azz. Thus the "K" model from the WL, which turned into the "X" model, which EVERYONE calls, the "Sportster" All in the name, of WINNING.

I have seen 'vintage' pics of board racers and flat trackers, and the MoCo boys, are sporting black and orange striped, "silks".
But "why" they picked B & O, ELEPHINO. Maybe the Ol' Boys were hung up, on Halloween. OR more likely, that's WHAT was available, back when they started doing it.

An avenue that MAY have a bearing, BUT I do not know for sure. Allis Chalmers Co, was a MAJOR player in Milwaukee, when HD came about. IT is a possibility, that the Davidson's, were either friends, or acquaintances, of the folks over at Allis. Allis Chalmers, are, of course, orange, silver, and black, and from Milwaukee. A s-t-r-e-t-c-h, possibly, but if you roll the clock back to the early 1900's, THAT was a rather important thing, at the time. Plus, they MAY have 'borrowed' paint, from Allis, given the economic times.

Again, this is ONLY my guess.