Ethanol & EPA, Sticking It to Us again..

[confederate]

Originally Posted by oct1949 Our Gas America station has had it for several yrs but not the others. Even that station has always been the same price.. No discount for it with Ethanol here! The new ones with it didn't lower there price either. All stations in our town are within .01 of each other.. Last night I found Marathon and one other local station has it without Ethanol. Even if it sold at .10 cents less per gallon, which is a 5% savings, we will use more fuel (OIL) because of the overall 10-15% less mileage, which wipes out any advantage of going to it in the first place. I am looking at the price or trying to save cost. Point is ts supposed to help us be less Dependant on foreign oil and it really ends up making us use more.. Looks like the oil company's win again with more profit. Good post. We are not any less dependent on foreign oil at all. It's a "feel good" scam plain and simple.

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[mp]

It's the individual state governments who are mandating ethanol use, NOT Washington DC or the EPA. Regular gas is still available everywhere in the midwest (where the corn is grown).
There's no question that ethanol lowers your fuel mileage, it's a scientific fact. It's also highly corrosive and it absorbs water. It cannot be transported in the same pipelines as gas because it will eat through them. New pipelines, another added expense.
One guy says he wore out some cars using ethanol. Maybe if he had used real gasoline they wouldn't have worn out.
Stanford University did a study on bio-fuels that showed that ethanol pollutes just as much as gasoline, only the pollutants and their levels are different. They found that BioDiesel pollutes MORE than oil-based diesel.
Corn prices were $3 a bushel back in the '70s when they started diluting gasoline with ethanol; yesterday's closing on the Chicago Board of Trade was $3.23. So has ethanol helped or really hurt corn prices? Yes there have been a couple of brief run-ups in prices. But the price of corn is far below what it should be. And there have been many years since ethanol began being used that the price of corn was down to the one dollar range. So overall, it's been a disaster for farmers.
By the way, I make my living from grain farming. And I don't use ethanol.

[geargrinder]

I and others here that have been using E-10 for decades have stated that the gas mileage decrease is non measureable, you have other issues if you get, or think you get "10-15% less mileage".

Originally Posted by oct1949

Our Gas America station has had it for several yrs but not the others.

Even that station has always been the same price.. No discount for it with Ethanol here! The new ones with it didn't lower there price either. All stations in our town are within .01 of each other..

Last night I found Marathon and one other local station has it without Ethanol.

Even if it sold at .10 cents less per gallon, which is a 5% savings, we will use more fuel (OIL) because of the overall 10-15% less mileage, which wipes out any advantage of going to it in the first place.

I am looking at the price or trying to save cost.

Point is ts supposed to help us be less Dependant on foreign oil and it really ends up making us use more..

Looks like the oil company's win again with more profit.

[Ridewva]

Originally Posted by EG Ultra Classic

Ever heard of oil well depletion allowance, or pipeline depreciation schedules, or other tax rebates given the oil co's? .

No, please explain how government SUBSIDIES to windmills and ethanol distilleries correlate to depreciation schedules?

[Jim Kraft]

Gasoline to air for good combustion is about 12 to 14 to 1. Alcohol is about 6 to 1. The only way you can get the same mileage out of gasohol is by running leaner, and getting less power. This will be the case if your mixture is not changed when changing from one to the other. I worked for a small refinery on a company owned pipeline for 27 years, and when I retired the government regulations were so restrictive, that it is a wonder to me that gasoline is as cheap as it is. Most of those regulations were made up as they went along so they could come in and fine you for noncomplyance. They would tell us that their dept was completely funded through fines. We have plenty of crude in this country, but the big oil haters do not want us to get it. Oh! BTW, The temps in the artic have been one of the coldest on record this year. You just can't have big corporations going around making big bucks, unless or course they are owned by the government.

[Da Gumpmeister]

Originally Posted by Jim Kraft

Gasoline to air for good combustion is about 12 to 14 to 1. Alcohol is about 6 to 1. The only way you can get the same mileage out of gasohol is by running leaner, and getting less power. This will be the case if your mixture is not changed when changing from one to the other. I worked for a small refinery on a company owned pipeline for 27 years, and when I retired the government regulations were so restrictive, that it is a wonder to me that gasoline is as cheap as it is. Most of those regulations were made up as they went along so they could come in and fine you for noncomplyance. They would tell us that their dept was completely funded through fines. We have plenty of crude in this country, but the big oil haters do not want us to get it. Oh! BTW, The temps in the artic have been one of the coldest on record this year. You just can't have big corporations going around making big bucks, unless or course they are owned by the government.

Agree !!!!!!

I have seen the word "subsidies" in reference to "farmers".

YOU are NOT subsidizing the "farmers". You are subsidizing ADM, Cargill, etc. IF they paid the farmers, JUST THE COST OF PRODUCTION, the farmers would NOT need anything, from US (taxpayers). ADM, etc, pay LESS THAN PARITY(cost of production, plus a miniscule profit), there is NO WAY a farmer is gonna make it, so the Govt. (US) step in, and make up the shortfall.

NOW, does ADM, Cargill, etc, pass that "savings" along to you??? NOT IN YOUR LIFETIME !!!!!!
ALSO, many int'l corps, are into the 'farming' game, and use it as a tax write off, AGAIN, costing the American taxpayer, at the end of the day.

I happened to be farming, (when I returned from the service), when ethanol first came on the scene. It was the 'brainchild' of farmers. They generated "co-ops" to be able to fund the construction. ALL of a sudden, the Govt. put a moratorium on construction. HUH ???? Why???
Turns out, those farmers caught BIG OIL flat footed. IF I REMEMBER CORRECTLY, and PLEASE CORRECT, if wrong, THANK YOU, but it was Phillips Petroleum, that strong armed the Govt. to put the moratorium in place, until they, BIG OIL, got caught up. Once that happened, the gate was WIDE OPEN, again. And they, BIG OIL, have NEVER looked back.

I get VERY LEARY when I see or hear the word "subsidy". One HAS to look at who REALLY PROFITS from said $$. It is NOT always as it "appears". Farmers are jus' breaking even, if that, WITH the subsidies. ADM, Cargill, etc, profits are thru the roof. They buy BELOW cost, and sell to YOU, AND THE WORLD, for retail. Nice gig, when you can get it.

"ADM, Feeding the World" ...................................on YOUR dime!!!! And IF you think 'oil' is expensive, they have been gradually taking over YOUR FOOD CHAIN. (Note the demise of the 'family farms'.) They are taking control from production, to the table. And WE are paying!!!

It's called, "Lobbying".

[EG Ultra Classic]

Cut all the subsidies, I am all for it. Not just Ethanol, but regular gasoline too. LETS DO IT NOW!

This is a dated study. At the time it was done, regular gas was $1.85/gal, and E-85 ethanol was $1.45/gal. They found if ALL the subsidies were pulled from both fuels, the price of regular gasoline would be $5.85/gal and E-85 ethanol $2.23.. So, bring it on Obama. Pull the ethanol subsidies, but also pull everything else we have been using to subsidize regular gasoline too.
http://wcco.com/consumer/energy.effi....2.926003.html

[Da Gumpmeister]

Originally Posted by EG Ultra Classic

Cut all the subsidies, I am all for it. Not just Ethanol, but regular gasoline too. LETS DO IT NOW!

This is a dated study. At the time it was done, regular gas was $1.85/gal, and E-85 ethanol was $1.45/gal. They found if ALL the subsidies were pulled from both fuels, the price of regular gasoline would be $5.85/gal and E-85 ethanol $2.23.. So, bring it on Obama. Pull the ethanol subsidies, but also pull everything else we have been using to subsidize regular gasoline too.
http://wcco.com/consumer/energy.effi....2.926003.html

THANX. I knew it was out there, "someplace", GLAD you had it, and posted it !!!!!!!!

[Rider57]

Something many people dont know is that ethanol is required to be added to gasoline refined from imported oil. Domestic oil mixed with imported oil, refine in to gasoline also has to have it. Pure domestic oil, refined to gasoline, sold in the U.S. is not required to have it.
All pumps are required to have the sticker but read it well,...."may contain up to 10%..."
The sticker is required by all states.
Sinclair has no ethanol here in Colorado. It goes in all my vehicles, always has.

[oct1949]

Originally Posted by geargrinder

I and others here that have been using E-10 for decades have stated that the gas mileage decrease is non measureable, you have other issues if you get, or think you get "10-15% less mileage".

GG;
just for Ur info I have ridden almost 300 miles this week.

1st tank (Of Reg{Premium} gas)since using the Ethanol, I went 172 miles prior to the reserve light coming on.

Thats right back in line with what I've been getting all summer, usually 165-175 miles when it comes on..

Fill up took 3.87 gals which gave me 44.4MPG which is also back to normal as I have been getting from 41 -46 this summer . ..

The best I got with ethanol was 151 miles before the light came on.

So I now know that there is not some other issue with the motor, I didn't change or adjust anything either.