'06 1450cc FI - cough/stall when warming up then OK

[HOGRIDA_06]

Originally Posted by flames64 I have a 2006 Road King Custom that I have been chasing a surging problem at low speed, simular to what you are describing. I have the SE air cleaner, HD SERT and slip on pipes. Everything else stock. I had the 8 degree injectors and had them replaced yesterday with the 25 degree injectors but I still have the surging. That sucks, I was kinda hoping new injectors would make everything better.

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[flames64]

Me too. I would like to hear from others who have had this done to see what their results were. Maybe my results are not typical.

[KBFXDLI]

I had the 8 degree injectors replaced with 25 degree ones at my 1000 miles service. The TSB was about cold start problems and surging. Once they were installed along with my stage 1 and sert everything was fine. No issues since.

[KBFXDLI]

M-1185 1 of 2
SERVICE BULLETIN
M-1185 February 20, 2006
FUEL INJECTOR/CALIBRATION CHANGES FOR 2006 1450cc
BIG TWINS
®
Purpose
It has recently been determined that the 8
°
angle cone spray
fuel injectors used on 2006 1450cc Big Twins may cause cold
start and/or driveability problems on some motorcycles.
In the interest of promoting customer satisfaction, the 25
°
angle cone spray fuel injectors used on CVO 103 cu. in.
(1690cc) motors will be installed on all production Big Twins
beginning on or around February 13, 2006.
Additionally, Harley-Davidson will provide for the installation
of 25
°
angle cone spray fuel injectors on those motorcycles
where use of the 8
°
fuel injectors (part number 27625-06) is
determined to be directly responsible for cold start and/or
driveability problems. See REQUIRED DEALER ACTION.
NOTE
Due to changes in the manufacturing process, the part number
of the 25
°
angle cone spray fuel injector is changing from
27709-06 to 27709-06A. This fuel injector also will be
stamped with the words “25 DEG” for easy identification. See
Figure 1.
Motorcycles Affected
Only 2006 1450cc Big Twin model motorcycles that exhibit
cold start and/or driveability problems directly related to use
of 8
°
angle cone spray fuel injectors (including those subsequently
equipped with P&A Screamin’ Eagle 1450cc or
1550cc Performance Kits).
Required Dealer Action
1. Adhere to the flow chart in Figure 2 when handling customer
complaints regarding cold start and/or driveability
problems on affected motorcycles.
2. If the flow chart indicates that the fuel injectors are the
source of the problem, check the part numbers stamped
on the fuel injectors. While standing on the left side of
the motorcycle, the part number on the rear fuel injector
can be easily read with the aid of a flashlight.
3. If required, remove both 8
°
angle cone spray fuel injectors
following the procedure in the applicable 2006 Service
Manual. Install 25
°
fuel injectors, either part number
27709-06 or 27709-06A.
Figure 1. Fuel Injector Part Numbers
f2447x8x
Old Style 8°
Fuel Injector
New Style 25°
Fuel Injector
NOZZLE END
IMPORTANT NOTE
In the interest of preserving customer safety and satisfaction, always check for outstanding recalls whenever any motorcycle is brought into your
dealership for either maintenance or service.
©2006 HARLEY-DAVIDSON MOTOR COMPANY
ROUTING SERVICE
MANAGER
SALES
MANAGER
PARTS
MANAGER
LEAD
TECHNICIAN
TECHNICIAN
NO.1
TECHNICIAN
NO. 2
TECHNICIAN
NO. 3
TECHNICIAN
NO. 4
RETURN
THIS TO
INITIAL HERE
M-1185 2 of 2
NOTE
Always replace both 8
°
angle cone spray fuel injectors on
affected motorcycles. Never mix 8
°
and 25
°
fuel injectors on
the same motorcycle.
NOTE
If the part numbers on the fuel injectors are rubbed off or otherwise
unreadable, count the number of orifices or holes in
the injector nozzle. The 8
°
angle cone spray fuel injector has
just three holes, while the 25
°
has six. See NOZZLE END in
Figure 1.
4. Update the ECM calibration. For those motorcycles
equipped with P&A Screamin’ Eagle 1450cc or 1550cc
Performance Kits, refer to h-dnet.com for the correct calibration
P/N.
Credit Procedure
Complete a separate warranty claim for each vehicle
serviced. Reference Service Bulletin M-1185 in the
“Comments” or “Notes” section and be sure to include the VIN
of the vehicle on which the service was performed. Fill in the
rest of the claim as follows:
Performance calibrations require pre-authorization from Technical
Service to be considered for warranty coverage unless
listed on the SWR.
Upon receipt of the properly completed claim, you will receive
the labor credit shown above.
Figure 2. Cold Start/Driveability Flow Chart
Correct condition or install
compatible components.
Are cold start or driveability
problems still evident?
Check the following:
● Fuel has the recommended octane rating and is not
contaminated.
● IAC operation.
● Spark plug condition.
● Engine is configured correctly (with the appropriate air
cleaner and exhaust).
● Vehicle configuration is supported by the correct
calibration. Refer to Calibration Information on h-dnet.com.
Does the vehicle pass inspection?
YES NO
Check fuel pressure. Is
fuel pressure between
58-62 psi?
YES NO
Replace the 8° fuel
injectors with 25°
fuel injectors.
Update ECM
calibration.
Check part numbers
stamped on fuel injectors.
Are 8° or 25° angle cone spray
fuel injectors installed?
8° 25°
Refer to SYMPTOMS
DIAGNOSTIC in
Digital Technician.
Problem
resolved.
YES NO
5388
Applicable DT Code
Refer to SYMPTOMS
DIAGNOSTIC in
Digital Technician.
Applicable DT Code
ENTRY FIELD ENTER
Claim Type PRD, MC
Problem Part No. 27625-06
Detail Part No. 27709-06 or 27709-06A
Quantity of Detail Part No. 2
Description 25
°
Angle
Cone
Spray
Fuel Injectors
Labor Code 5388
Time 1.10 Hours
Customer Concern Code 9203
Condition Code 5388

[Mascman]

I know about the bulletin, but my bike has always ran well.

If you get a custom Dyno tune, then it should be mapped to run with the injectors and it shouldn't be an issue, right? Runs like a raped ape after warm up so I don't think mine is due to injectors.

I am thinking that my intake gaskets are leaking.

With the bike running, I shot propane at it and the rear cylinder gasket seems to be the one leaking.

[HOGRIDA_06]

Let me know if changing that gasket fix's her. I checked my intake with propane and found no leak. Maybe I'll give it another try. I went through yesterday and checked to make sure my injector wires were good and they are.

[Mascman]

I changed out the gaskets today and no difference...what a motherfkr!!

Stupid design on the intake bolts...not extremely hard but time-consuming.

I really don't know what to do next.

I bought a new bike so I wouldn't have problems...2006 with only 8,800 miles.

I don't have the money to through at someone to diagnose the problem.

I'm having carpal tunnel surgery on Friday (among other health issues) and all I wanted was a couple days of riding on my Harley.

Very fkn disappointed with this bike right now.

[quickblue6]

Originally Posted by Mascman

I know about the bulletin, but my bike has always ran well.

If you get a custom Dyno tune, then it should be mapped to run with the injectors and it shouldn't be an issue, right? Runs like a raped ape after warm up so I don't think mine is due to injectors.

I am thinking that my intake gaskets are leaking.

With the bike running, I shot propane at it and the rear cylinder gasket seems to be the one leaking.

I bet the injector's will cure your problem, the problem occurs when the computer is open loop, which is what the computer is in at cold start, and if you read some of the post's on the issue most of the trouble is in cold start or open loop. Once it comes up on temp it goes to closed loop and acts normal. The propane test can be flawed with a open breather, because the gas can draw in to the throttle body and cause the elevated idle. The injectors would be worth trying, and they are not real high(around 50.00 each last I checked). If you have a race tuner you can load the new map for the 25* injectors, tune # is 141NX104. I had my dealer take care of mine as warranty/recall repair work. I have the TSB in pdf form if you want to take a look at it, pm me and I'll send it to you.

[Mascman]

Originally Posted by quickblue6

I bet the injector's will cure your problem, the problem occurs when the computer is open loop, which is what the computer is in at cold start, and if you read some of the post's on the issue most of the trouble is in cold start or open loop. Once it comes up on temp it goes to closed loop and acts normal. The propane test can be flawed with a open breather, because the gas can draw in to the throttle body and cause the elevated idle. The injectors would be worth trying, and they are not real high(around 50.00 each last I checked). If you have a race tuner you can load the new map for the 25* injectors, tune # is 141NX104. I had my dealer take care of mine as warranty/recall repair work. I have the TSB in pdf form if you want to take a look at it, pm me and I'll send it to you.

If that is correct about the closed loop, then it would make the most sense.

I kept posting about how it only does it during heat up, then disappears and runs good.

If I can set it back to stock and it still does it...maybe the stealer will replace the injectors as a safety issue.

What doesn't make sense is that for almost 3 years it has been running good with the PCIII and custom dyno tune....just started acting up on me one day out of the blue.

Double-checked my seals and they don't appear to be leaking and plugs are a nice tan, whereas before they where looking lean.

[Ryan_Iron]

I've been having similar issues to what's been posted here on a mostly stock bike. She fires up just fine but then can't seem to stay alive idling. I thought it might be bad gas so I tried to fire her up a bit out on the road but totally lost throttle response as she started to die on me. I've heard a bit about pin holes in fuel lines and sticking IACs. I even disconnected the MAP sensor but can't tell if it's fixed the problem or not.