Issues with FuelPak & Samson True Duals; runnung rich & excessive decel pop
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From: Okinawa, Japan
Issues with FuelPak & Samson True Duals; runnung rich & excessive decel pop
I mistakenly posted this on Elec/Ign/Tun/ECM/FI forum; chalk it up to the FNG. I have an 07 Deluxe with Samson True Duals (no baffles), Vance & Hines Fuel Pak, and Kuryakyn Hi Five air filter. I mapped the FuelPak to the recommendation by V&H, but it's running rich, excessive pop on decel, and running hot. I called back to V&H several times and they gave me some minor adjustments. I get less decel pop (still excessive), still running hot, and still get black smoke on start-up. Samson says to call V&H, who says there is nothing else they can do. If they had eyes on, I'm sure they could help. I'm at a loss, any advice would be appreciated. Thanks 
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From: Newcastle, Ca.
What makes you think its running rich? When VH recommended changing settings and it helped to eliminate the decel popping a little, did they have you richen or lean the mix? Make sure you do not have any exhaust leaks, in your pipes or at the heads into the pipes. Also, have you thought about putting the baffles back in. Always a good idea to have some back pressure...
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From: Okinawa, Japan
KumaRide
V&H had me make adjustments to FuelPak, which were probably adjustments to the mixture. I know it's running rich due to the black smoke on startup and excessive fuel smell. I also had a mech look at it and he agreed with running rich. I'll check for leaks in the exhaust. I purchased the pipes without baffles and would rather not put baffles in unless I need to, and it's looking like I may need to. I don't know if I can add baffles or I may need to purchase new extensions. The thing is, I'm sure there are other bikes set up the same as mine, are they having this problem? Thanks KumaRide
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From: Okinawa, Japan
KumaRide, I've been back and forth with Adam Rogers at FuelPax (tech site) and he is at a loss. His suggestion is to replace the pipes with the baffled version. He only addressed the decel pop, not the lean fuel mixture. I sent back another email asking if the engine could be tuned to the samson pipes (true duals w/o baffles) using the FuelPak. We've been back and forth on this for a while now, and I do not think the FuelPak will work. Once he validates this, I'll forward the info to Samson to pass onto their customers. I'll let you know as well. In that event, I have 2 options, new extensions for $400 or the HD dealer here in Okinawa recommended either the Twin Tec or Thundermax fuel management systems. Do you know anything about these systems? Thanks,
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From: Newcastle, Ca.
Thundermax is a good way to go - if you can afford it
Not sure if that will completely get rid of decel popping... just depends, decel popping is very common. I had it until I installed cams. Lots of Samson Pipes and duals around around. Ask what others are running for fuel management with duals. Or, search Samson pipes and ask those people directly.
Forgot to mention, post the dual Samson and fuel management question in the Softail Forum. You should get more responses.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/softail-models-7/
Not sure if that will completely get rid of decel popping... just depends, decel popping is very common. I had it until I installed cams. Lots of Samson Pipes and duals around around. Ask what others are running for fuel management with duals. Or, search Samson pipes and ask those people directly.Forgot to mention, post the dual Samson and fuel management question in the Softail Forum. You should get more responses.
https://www.hdforums.com/forum/softail-models-7/
Last edited by KumaRide; Oct 21, 2009 at 10:05 AM.
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From: south-western virginia
Little less than 4 yrs back I put Samson slip-ons on my 06 FLH and they failed (baffle broke), company offered 10% off retail on replacement. Opted for the V&H tapered slash cut slip on. Considered V&H at original purchase and remember thinkin they were "too expensive"... turns out the V&H are cheaper (comparing retail to retail) by current prices!
I pulled up Samson and V&H web sites and it appears to me that, apples to apples, the V&H's are also cheaper than Samson in true duals (V&H #16735, $699.13 retail vs Samson S2-442, $899.95 retail) only tech difference I see is the V&H's come with baffles (they are removable so you can take em out if you like). Had the dealership map for the Samsons 4 yrs back (w/ H-D EFI Race Tuner, was $460). first day out today with the V&H's and IMO they sound better, look better w/ no decrease in power (if anything there may have been an increase) AND I got over 2 more mpg than I ever got with the Samson's (never got 40 before and got 42.4 today on a 250 mi. trip).
rest assured I have no interest in V&H nor is it my intention to "run-down" Samson; however, regarding performance, sound and appearance my "grade" for each would be: Samson: B-; V&H: B+ (I really liked the Samsons before they failed, imo prematurely). over all the Samson rolled thunder slip-ons (at least the set I got) get a "D-" (due to premature failure), the company gets a "F" (not just over the minuscule 10% offer, the second guy I talked to (the first guy's supervisor)"claimed" he didn't have authority to offer more AND he agreed to check with higher up's. promised to call back in a day- I waited three before going with V&H). I cannot/will not grade the V&H's overall as longevity has not yet been adequately "proven". 1 certainty is there will be NO more Samson's in my future!
Use this intel or disregard as you see fit.
DD out
I pulled up Samson and V&H web sites and it appears to me that, apples to apples, the V&H's are also cheaper than Samson in true duals (V&H #16735, $699.13 retail vs Samson S2-442, $899.95 retail) only tech difference I see is the V&H's come with baffles (they are removable so you can take em out if you like). Had the dealership map for the Samsons 4 yrs back (w/ H-D EFI Race Tuner, was $460). first day out today with the V&H's and IMO they sound better, look better w/ no decrease in power (if anything there may have been an increase) AND I got over 2 more mpg than I ever got with the Samson's (never got 40 before and got 42.4 today on a 250 mi. trip).
rest assured I have no interest in V&H nor is it my intention to "run-down" Samson; however, regarding performance, sound and appearance my "grade" for each would be: Samson: B-; V&H: B+ (I really liked the Samsons before they failed, imo prematurely). over all the Samson rolled thunder slip-ons (at least the set I got) get a "D-" (due to premature failure), the company gets a "F" (not just over the minuscule 10% offer, the second guy I talked to (the first guy's supervisor)"claimed" he didn't have authority to offer more AND he agreed to check with higher up's. promised to call back in a day- I waited three before going with V&H). I cannot/will not grade the V&H's overall as longevity has not yet been adequately "proven". 1 certainty is there will be NO more Samson's in my future!
Use this intel or disregard as you see fit.
DD out
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Switching to Thundermaxx
Thanks Everyone,
Thanks to this forum, I am learning a great deal about fuel management systems. First and foremost, the FuelPak seems to be a good system, but very limited. I'm thinking Thundermaxx is the way to go. I emailed Jamie at Fuel Motoand got a quote, I guess you get what you pay for and I hear Thundermax is an excellent way to go. Fortunately for me, I have a friend selling one and he'll let me try it out for a month to see if it works before buying it. I'll let you know how it works out. Thank You,
Matt
Thanks to this forum, I am learning a great deal about fuel management systems. First and foremost, the FuelPak seems to be a good system, but very limited. I'm thinking Thundermaxx is the way to go. I emailed Jamie at Fuel Motoand got a quote, I guess you get what you pay for and I hear Thundermax is an excellent way to go. Fortunately for me, I have a friend selling one and he'll let me try it out for a month to see if it works before buying it. I'll let you know how it works out. Thank You,
Matt
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Cruiser
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 175
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From: Central Florida
Fuel Pak
Just a question but did you try to reset all the Fuel pak values? I installed mine skimming the instructions in the garage lighting and noticed I set some values to minus (-) instead of positive(+) on the double checking mode. Also the Fuel Pak has a step to set it to your bike if missed it will not remap the ECM. I try to read the instruction the day before to understand more clearly, hope that helps.
Last edited by Tuffstang; Oct 29, 2009 at 10:53 AM.
Get a PCIII and call it day. I have read nothing but problems with the fuel pak. Those I know with power commanders and samson true duals without baffles have no problems. Fuelmoto is the answer.