Power Commander or Race Tuner???
Tourer
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 384
Likes: 2
From: Eastern NC
I have the PC3 and wish I would have went with the tts or sert. Self proclaimed "tuners" in this area love the PC, because of how easy and quick it is to use. However the other two are far better tuning devices, and you actually have to have a knowledge of tuning to use them effectively.
Not knocking anyone either, but the only time I would run a canned map from anyone, would be to ride my bike up onto the trailer so I could take it to a tuner.
Road Warrior
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,479
Likes: 4
From: SoCal
HD attempted to use the DynoJet product line as "theirs" but couldn't reach agreement to terms. Instead they purchased their current technology from another company. Due to issues involving pieces of cardboard and tape on the throttle and other bizarre specs, my tuner gave up on SERT tuning and the dealer will do them in the SoCal area where I live. I figure if HD wants it, and the best local tuners don't, then I'll take it...since the TT is an expensive option as my bike uses a Magneti-Marelli ECM. Having researded and asked a lot of questions, were my bike '02 and up I would purchase the TT system. Outside of that, The DynoJet product is the right stuff...
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,132
Likes: 25
From: NorCal
FYI, just for accuracy, there is no longer any tuning software referred to as SERT or Race Tuner. Harley now refers to their tuner as the Pro SuperTuner. The SERT or RaceTuner is their older product.
I have both. The SERT on my FI 2003 Fatboy and the SuperTuner on my 2010 SE Ultra.
Until very recently, I would have suggested staying away from the Pro SuperTuner. However if you have interest in tweaking your bike yourself either after a dyno tune (due to an exhaust change for example) or without ever doing a dyno tune, the SuperTuner has some very neat capabilities that I am only begining to explore on my 2010 SE Ultra.
The Pro ST has a VCI or ECU recorder that you can activate, store in a saddlebag (it's the size of a cigarette pack) and use to store the performance of your bike. After saving a few rides, you can then download the engine performance file back to your laptop. Once the file is back on the laptop you can run SmartTune to generate recommended changes to your existing ECU MAP. You can then save the updated map with the SmartTune changes back to your bike and check out the improvements from the saddle.
The improvements on my bike were actually quite good and I'm now beginning to like the SuperTuner as I learn more about it.
I have both. The SERT on my FI 2003 Fatboy and the SuperTuner on my 2010 SE Ultra.
Until very recently, I would have suggested staying away from the Pro SuperTuner. However if you have interest in tweaking your bike yourself either after a dyno tune (due to an exhaust change for example) or without ever doing a dyno tune, the SuperTuner has some very neat capabilities that I am only begining to explore on my 2010 SE Ultra.
The Pro ST has a VCI or ECU recorder that you can activate, store in a saddlebag (it's the size of a cigarette pack) and use to store the performance of your bike. After saving a few rides, you can then download the engine performance file back to your laptop. Once the file is back on the laptop you can run SmartTune to generate recommended changes to your existing ECU MAP. You can then save the updated map with the SmartTune changes back to your bike and check out the improvements from the saddle.
The improvements on my bike were actually quite good and I'm now beginning to like the SuperTuner as I learn more about it.
Yes, the HD tuner can store data in the dongle. Only problem is the data stored is generated by the narrow-band 02 sensors, which only really sense 14.1-14.9 AFR, if even that. So the program is essentially "guessing" how much too lean or too rich the bike is running. Yes, you can tweak AFR's, but not as much as I would like.
What *is* cool about the super tuner is that you can run closed-loop and get killer fuel economy. Also, you can adjust the delay in throttle response (yes, there's lots programmed in from the factory). You can make that throttle snap, which you cannot do with a PCV.
Also, the dongle stays at home. You download a program into your bike, and your fully tested, million mile ECM is still factory with no boxes or harnesses to go bad.
The PCV is cool because the Autotune 02 sensors are wide band. You can program in ridiculous AFR ranges and it will obey. Not that that's a good thing, but it means you can run closed loop pretty much all the time and dial in any AFR you want.
So, both have benefits, both have drawbacks. And they cost the same.
I guess the PCV has the advantage, 'cause if you hate it you can sell it to someone :P
Member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,310
Likes: 1,079
The HD tuner is very sweet, and I'm torn as to buy the new super tuner or the PCV with autotune.
Yes, the HD tuner can store data in the dongle. Only problem is the data stored is generated by the narrow-band 02 sensors, which only really sense 14.1-14.9 AFR, if even that. So the program is essentially "guessing" how much too lean or too rich the bike is running. Yes, you can tweak AFR's, but not as much as I would like.
What *is* cool about the super tuner is that you can run closed-loop and get killer fuel economy. Also, you can adjust the delay in throttle response (yes, there's lots programmed in from the factory). You can make that throttle snap, which you cannot do with a PCV.
Also, the dongle stays at home. You download a program into your bike, and your fully tested, million mile ECM is still factory with no boxes or harnesses to go bad.
The PCV is cool because the Autotune 02 sensors are wide band. You can program in ridiculous AFR ranges and it will obey. Not that that's a good thing, but it means you can run closed loop pretty much all the time and dial in any AFR you want.
So, both have benefits, both have drawbacks. And they cost the same.
I guess the PCV has the advantage, 'cause if you hate it you can sell it to someone :P
Yes, the HD tuner can store data in the dongle. Only problem is the data stored is generated by the narrow-band 02 sensors, which only really sense 14.1-14.9 AFR, if even that. So the program is essentially "guessing" how much too lean or too rich the bike is running. Yes, you can tweak AFR's, but not as much as I would like.
What *is* cool about the super tuner is that you can run closed-loop and get killer fuel economy. Also, you can adjust the delay in throttle response (yes, there's lots programmed in from the factory). You can make that throttle snap, which you cannot do with a PCV.
Also, the dongle stays at home. You download a program into your bike, and your fully tested, million mile ECM is still factory with no boxes or harnesses to go bad.
The PCV is cool because the Autotune 02 sensors are wide band. You can program in ridiculous AFR ranges and it will obey. Not that that's a good thing, but it means you can run closed loop pretty much all the time and dial in any AFR you want.
So, both have benefits, both have drawbacks. And they cost the same.
I guess the PCV has the advantage, 'cause if you hate it you can sell it to someone :P
Although I really do wish I could map the engine in closed-loop mode with AFRs lower than 14.1. Maybe in the long run, I'll be thankful for the fuel economy that the closed loop 14.1 gets me in the cruising ranges (3500rpm-lower and 70kpa-lower).
If you have work done to your bike like Cams, bigger pistons and so forth, do you Have to have some type of tuner installed, will your bike run with out it? When I had my work done the shop that did the work just put one on with out talkin to me about a tuner, was not even figured into the bid. Was told the bike would not run without it.
Road Captain
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 714
Likes: 0
From: Orlando
For me it came down to who was going to tune my bike.
Once I found a place that was recommended for my area by members here
I went and talked to them, they like to tune with a TTS Mastertune.
That said, that is what I went with.
Nothing against the others, but that is what my tuner had more time and knowledge on so that is what and why I chose the TTS
Once I found a place that was recommended for my area by members here
I went and talked to them, they like to tune with a TTS Mastertune.
That said, that is what I went with.
Nothing against the others, but that is what my tuner had more time and knowledge on so that is what and why I chose the TTS
Thread Starter
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Tourer
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 450
Likes: 2
From: Loudon TN. (30 miles from The Dragon)
One of the local (non-harley) shops here use the TTS Mastertune also. They think very highly of it. Have you had any issues with your bike after it was installed?
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Road Warrior
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,890
Likes: 3
SERT is like downloading a program into your computer, PC is like plugging in a seperate item to your computer via a USB port. Both adjust your fuel, timing but like said in leftcoasters post both are only as good as the tuner. My vote goes for PC, if anything everygoes wrong you can unplug and get home JMHO
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