96 to 107 or 113 basic build questions...
Thread Starter
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Road Warrior
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,463
Likes: 12
From: San Antonio, TX
My advice cannont superscede what's already been said....George, Dalton, and Ryan all have powerful, reliable builds. I'll share with you my experience dealing with multiple builds on the same bike. I started with a stock 96", and thought I'd be happy with a SE Stage II build....wasn't the case, so I started changing things. I'll list:
1st build: SE Stage II- 103" pistons, SE 255 cams, Big Radius, No headwork, PCIII...82/102
2nd build: Added Baisley Heads, Swapped to TW6G-7 cams, Swapped to FatCat, PCIII...98/109
3rd build: Swapped to TMan 590 cams, added HPI 55mm t/b, SE 4.89 injectors, PCIII...107/107 (and I get 45-47 mpg)
Starting tear down tomorrow to make it a 113"....and I'm DONE!
I say all of this for this reason- Don't cheap out and "only" do something to save a few $$$, because it'll cause you more in the long run. If I had it to do all over again, I'd have just gone to a 107" from the beginning, and been done.
1st build: SE Stage II- 103" pistons, SE 255 cams, Big Radius, No headwork, PCIII...82/102
2nd build: Added Baisley Heads, Swapped to TW6G-7 cams, Swapped to FatCat, PCIII...98/109
3rd build: Swapped to TMan 590 cams, added HPI 55mm t/b, SE 4.89 injectors, PCIII...107/107 (and I get 45-47 mpg)
Starting tear down tomorrow to make it a 113"....and I'm DONE!
I say all of this for this reason- Don't cheap out and "only" do something to save a few $$$, because it'll cause you more in the long run. If I had it to do all over again, I'd have just gone to a 107" from the beginning, and been done.
I hear ya. I am going to take your advice and all the others advice that responded hear and call Scott and discuss the 107 build for sure. Actually I called him today but unfortunately it was after hours. I will give him a call on monday.
I appreciate your advice to not cheap out.
I don't want to cheap out at all honestly. I want it all done at one time. At this point I am not educated enough to know what "all of it" entails however. I am sure Scott will inform me.
I know I would need...
1) 107 kit which I believe has pistons, rings and gaskets
2) engine cases bored, I may take Se deluxe's advice and take it to (Dave at JD,s cycleworks in Pa for machining) thats much closer than 350 miles. Only about 170 miles =)
3) Fuel management tuner,(tts or pcv, etc...)
4)high flow af
5)cams
Am I missing anything here?
Thanks,
Tom
Tourer
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 384
Likes: 2
From: Eastern NC
ryanl,
I noticed you live in North Carolina.
How did you get your build done via Hillside? Did you ship your cases? Did he ship you a kit that you had someone else install near you? I am still considering the logistics of this myself.
Thanks again,
Tom
Thanks for the advice, I agree on only doing it once.
I noticed you live in North Carolina.
How did you get your build done via Hillside? Did you ship your cases? Did he ship you a kit that you had someone else install near you? I am still considering the logistics of this myself.
Thanks again,
Tom
Thanks for the advice, I agree on only doing it once.
He provided the pistons matched the cylinders to them and set the gap and installed rings. He bored the throttle body(which you wont need done), reworked the heads, then installed the cams (which he also provided) onto my cam plate for me. He also provided gaskets, clutch spring, adjustable pushrods and gear drive conversion (which you wont have to worry about either).
I did the dissasembly and reassembly with the use of my fathers garage and a few tools and the service manual. Also, Scott was very helpful and available via phone and pm/email througout the build to answer any and all questions I had for him (even the really stupid ones).
The 98" is to the 88 what the 107 is to the 96. It is stricly a top end job and no case work is required. It may seem intimidating but you would be suprised how easy this job is to do. It is litterally take bolts out and put bolts back in. Before this, an oil change is the biggest project I had taken on with my bike.
It took me wayyyy longer to do it then it would for an indy, but you know what? Who cares, I saved a bunch of money on labor. And learned a lot in the process.
If your not interested in doing the work yourself, I would suggest either getting the bike up to Scott, or as someone else mentioned JD's. JD's has a dyno on site and uses hillside for some headwork and machining services, and Hillside uses a tuner close by Joes Dyno (who is one of the best tuners around no matter what anyone says). So when you get your bike back, it is broken in and tuned, all you have to do is ride. I wouldnt have hesitated to do either one if I lived closer. Truth be told, neither my dealer nor the local indy had heard of Hillside and flat out refused to use them. So I went at it alone, suffice to say they and their customers both know who hillside cycles is now
Thread Starter
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Road Warrior
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,463
Likes: 12
From: San Antonio, TX
save your self some time and call Dave at JD,s cycleworks in Pa . 1-610-297-0321 he and Scott are friends. might be able to save you the whole trip to munnsville. plus dave is a great tuner.
he has put plenty of scotts work torether and tuned them flawlessly.
if you are going to go with a hillside build the bike will have to be custom mapped by actually having it tuned ...
you just dont go dropping maps in there to get it close when you are doing a build like that. you can destroy the engine.
Oh yea a TTS is the best for tuning a harley
he has put plenty of scotts work torether and tuned them flawlessly.
if you are going to go with a hillside build the bike will have to be custom mapped by actually having it tuned ...
you just dont go dropping maps in there to get it close when you are doing a build like that. you can destroy the engine.
Oh yea a TTS is the best for tuning a harley
I appreciate the advice and info on JD Cycleworks in PA. This would be seriously closer than the 350 miles to Munnsville. It is still a good 170 away from me though. would be a great ride, but the walk back would be killer =)... JK
...I am starting to think that finding someone a bit closer would be the best at this point. Would you happen to know if any one near the Baltimore area was familiar with Scotts work?
Thanks again,
Tom
Thread Starter
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Road Warrior
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,463
Likes: 12
From: San Antonio, TX
I shipped Scott my heads, cylinders, throttle body and camplate
He provided the pistons matched the cylinders to them and set the gap and installed rings. He bored the throttle body(which you wont need done), reworked the heads, then installed the cams (which he also provided) onto my cam plate for me. He also provided gaskets, clutch spring, adjustable pushrods and gear drive conversion (which you wont have to worry about either).
I did the dissasembly and reassembly with the use of my fathers garage and a few tools and the service manual. Also, Scott was very helpful and available via phone and pm/email througout the build to answer any and all questions I had for him (even the really stupid ones).
The 98" is to the 88 what the 107 is to the 96. It is stricly a top end job and no case work is required. It may seem intimidating but you would be suprised how easy this job is to do. It is litterally take bolts out and put bolts back in. Before this, an oil change is the biggest project I had taken on with my bike.
It took me wayyyy longer to do it then it would for an indy, but you know what? Who cares, I saved a bunch of money on labor. And learned a lot in the process.
If your not interested in doing the work yourself, I would suggest either getting the bike up to Scott, or as someone else mentioned JD's. JD's has a dyno on site and uses hillside for some headwork and machining services, and Hillside uses a tuner close by Joes Dyno (who is one of the best tuners around no matter what anyone says). So when you get your bike back, it is broken in and tuned, all you have to do is ride. I wouldnt have hesitated to do either one if I lived closer. Truth be told, neither my dealer nor the local indy had heard of Hillside and flat out refused to use them. So I went at it alone, suffice to say they and their customers both know who hillside cycles is now
He provided the pistons matched the cylinders to them and set the gap and installed rings. He bored the throttle body(which you wont need done), reworked the heads, then installed the cams (which he also provided) onto my cam plate for me. He also provided gaskets, clutch spring, adjustable pushrods and gear drive conversion (which you wont have to worry about either).
I did the dissasembly and reassembly with the use of my fathers garage and a few tools and the service manual. Also, Scott was very helpful and available via phone and pm/email througout the build to answer any and all questions I had for him (even the really stupid ones).
The 98" is to the 88 what the 107 is to the 96. It is stricly a top end job and no case work is required. It may seem intimidating but you would be suprised how easy this job is to do. It is litterally take bolts out and put bolts back in. Before this, an oil change is the biggest project I had taken on with my bike.
It took me wayyyy longer to do it then it would for an indy, but you know what? Who cares, I saved a bunch of money on labor. And learned a lot in the process.
If your not interested in doing the work yourself, I would suggest either getting the bike up to Scott, or as someone else mentioned JD's. JD's has a dyno on site and uses hillside for some headwork and machining services, and Hillside uses a tuner close by Joes Dyno (who is one of the best tuners around no matter what anyone says). So when you get your bike back, it is broken in and tuned, all you have to do is ride. I wouldnt have hesitated to do either one if I lived closer. Truth be told, neither my dealer nor the local indy had heard of Hillside and flat out refused to use them. So I went at it alone, suffice to say they and their customers both know who hillside cycles is now
Awesome info! I wish I had the place to do the work. I unfortuanately dont. Not sure I have the courage to do it either =). I think that Jd's is going to be my destination unless Scott can suggest someone even closer. Thanks for the thorough explanation.
Tom
Intermediate
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 25
Likes: 0
Zero, have you given any thought about the people in your area: Zipper's Performance in Elkridge? They offer the the engine packages as the others and will do the all the work. These guy's have done alot od R&D and have thier own Fuel Injection Package (Autotune). Call and talk with Marla she can help you with our needs. Here's a link to thier site:
http://www.zippersperformance.com/ca...ts.asp?cat=862
http://www.zippersperformance.com/ca...ts.asp?cat=862
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,525
Likes: 4
From: Montreal, Canada
Zero,
Here's another builder option. The more choices the better. All are good.
http://www.head-quarters.com/
Here's another builder option. The more choices the better. All are good.
http://www.head-quarters.com/
Road Warrior
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,270
Likes: 0
SEDELUXE,
I appreciate the advice and info on JD Cycleworks in PA. This would be seriously closer than the 350 miles to Munnsville. It is still a good 170 away from me though. would be a great ride, but the walk back would be killer =)... JK
...I am starting to think that finding someone a bit closer would be the best at this point. Would you happen to know if any one near the Baltimore area was familiar with Scotts work?
Thanks again,
Tom
I appreciate the advice and info on JD Cycleworks in PA. This would be seriously closer than the 350 miles to Munnsville. It is still a good 170 away from me though. would be a great ride, but the walk back would be killer =)... JK
...I am starting to think that finding someone a bit closer would be the best at this point. Would you happen to know if any one near the Baltimore area was familiar with Scotts work?
Thanks again,
Tom
give dave a call him and Scott work very close with each other and if getting the bike to dave is a problem Hee will come and pick it up...
build it with Hillside parts and tune it then drop it back off.. cant ask for any better service then that..
ask scott he will tell you.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,663
Likes: 7
From: Northeast Ohio
i get about 40-43 mpg withh my bike when cruising...i read a lot of crap about builds not going to give you this or that.. a good solid build with quality parts will superceed any stuff just thrown together.
Danny ,Phil ,Dalton and my bike are proof that quality parts tuned correctly will produce and give you miles of reliability and dependability...
Danny ,Phil ,Dalton and my bike are proof that quality parts tuned correctly will produce and give you miles of reliability and dependability...
I know have 35k miles since I built the Head Quarters 120". Have gotten as high as 52 mpg at higher elevations, routinely get 45mpg solo and 40-42 two up. I dont consider that too bad as I can be heavy handed with the throttle. Through oil analysis I have extened my oil change intervals and still do not use greater than 1/2 qt of oil in 5000 miles. Yes, changing oil at 5k miles as I routinely ride 15k miles or more in the 5 summer months we have here in northern Ohio. The engine is at 10.5:1 with 220ccp but starts on the first revolution every time, even after heat soak. The tune is everything.
Bottom line, build it right, build it to your riding style, don't go over the top with the build and it will give you many (s)miles of fun.
There are so many ways to do a build, and so many combinations, but they all don't work. Go with the recommendation of a quality shop or builder.
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Tourer
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 384
Likes: 2
From: Eastern NC
Bottom line, build it right, build it to your riding style, don't go over the top with the build and it will give you many (s)miles of fun.
There are so many ways to do a build, and so many combinations, but they all don't work. Go with the recommendation of a quality shop or builder.
There are so many ways to do a build, and so many combinations, but they all don't work. Go with the recommendation of a quality shop or builder.
FWIW Im knocking down 200+miles a tank on my bike, lots of stop and GO! and lots of 70+ mph cruising.
Sponsor
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 12,084
Likes: 829
The 107" kit is a very simple drop-on kit, that can be set up for bagger application, or with a cam/compression change/t body, it can be a horsepower monster as well.
No case boring needed, but a tighter grip, will be. hehe
Scott
No case boring needed, but a tighter grip, will be. hehe
Scott