Tensioners: Springs vs Hyrdaulic vs Gear Drive
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Road Captain
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 588
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From: Volusia County, FL
Tensioners: Springs vs Hyrdaulic vs Gear Drive
Well, I guess with 30K on the clock of my 04 RKP, I am going to have to bite the bullet and get the tensioners done. I could do it, but I don't have the proper tools or time to do it, so I will turn it over to a indy to do it for me. (If anyone wants to know, it will either be Black Gold or Miller's Custom Parts, both in Daytona Beach.)
I am wondering a couple of things, though. I want to upgrade the cams in the motor at the same time. Given this will add to the cost of the total job, I wonder what would be the most cost effective vs time effective (longevity). This is on the assumption that the cam bearings WILL BE replaced when the cams are R&R'd. I am thinking about either a set of Andrews 21 or 26 cams. (This is a stock TC88, with SE Stage 1 A/C w/ K&N, and 4" SE slipons w/ Cycle Shack baffles. A PCIII USB does the tuning for now, but will be eventually replaced with a SERT (or SEST, or whatever is out there.)
If I go with new, stock, spring tensioners, I have been told I will need new chains as well. There is about $300 right there. Then factor in more for the bearings, seals, etc etc.
If I go with the hydraulic setup, I have been quoted a price of around $700, including the new cams. Dont know if this includes bearings or not, or if it includes seals or not.
Finally, there is gear drive. This eliminates the chains and tensioners completely. You have to switch cams with this setup anyway, so new cams are a given.
So - What do yall think? I am hoping to keep this under $1000, including labor. (I have been quoted about 3 hrs of labor to do tensioners @ $45/hr.)
I am wondering a couple of things, though. I want to upgrade the cams in the motor at the same time. Given this will add to the cost of the total job, I wonder what would be the most cost effective vs time effective (longevity). This is on the assumption that the cam bearings WILL BE replaced when the cams are R&R'd. I am thinking about either a set of Andrews 21 or 26 cams. (This is a stock TC88, with SE Stage 1 A/C w/ K&N, and 4" SE slipons w/ Cycle Shack baffles. A PCIII USB does the tuning for now, but will be eventually replaced with a SERT (or SEST, or whatever is out there.)
If I go with new, stock, spring tensioners, I have been told I will need new chains as well. There is about $300 right there. Then factor in more for the bearings, seals, etc etc.
If I go with the hydraulic setup, I have been quoted a price of around $700, including the new cams. Dont know if this includes bearings or not, or if it includes seals or not.
Finally, there is gear drive. This eliminates the chains and tensioners completely. You have to switch cams with this setup anyway, so new cams are a given.
So - What do yall think? I am hoping to keep this under $1000, including labor. (I have been quoted about 3 hrs of labor to do tensioners @ $45/hr.)
Road Warrior
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,984
Likes: 7
I would go with the Hydraulic set up which also includes a late model oil pump. The new chain drive seems to be doing a real good job for the last several years now.
Of course new Torrington bearings with the cams. Small money if not included.
And a TTS Mastertune. Icing on the cake.
Of course new Torrington bearings with the cams. Small money if not included.
And a TTS Mastertune. Icing on the cake.
HDF Community Team
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 12,782
Likes: 2,610
From: san antonio
What Old Gunny said. I would add that the parts for the hydro conversion are available from Zanottis for about $370; go to the Andrews website for the complete parts list. Getting the upgraded oil pump is the best part of the conversion and cam chest nois is almost eliminated. The only thing not listed at the Andrews site are the fasteners to attach the two tensioner brackets to the cam plate; you can get those at your local hardware store or fastener house.
Both cams you mention are good choices; the 21 might be the better choice for an FL model but I don't know how you ride. You didn't mention pushrods but at 3 hours labor I think you are going to need a set of adjustables.
You really don't need to upgrade your fuel management with that build. If the tuner is any good with the PC, any gain you get won't be worth the money you will spend for the upgrade. JMHO.
Both cams you mention are good choices; the 21 might be the better choice for an FL model but I don't know how you ride. You didn't mention pushrods but at 3 hours labor I think you are going to need a set of adjustables.
You really don't need to upgrade your fuel management with that build. If the tuner is any good with the PC, any gain you get won't be worth the money you will spend for the upgrade. JMHO.
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Road Captain
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 588
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From: Volusia County, FL
My quote for the new style hydraulic setup was including new cams.
I would prefer to not use adjustables, but I might have to with the noise in my motor... I have just heard bad things about them.
Old Gunny - Good suggestions, but I want to stay under $1000..... Your suggestions put me over the $2000 mark.
I would prefer to not use adjustables, but I might have to with the noise in my motor... I have just heard bad things about them.
Old Gunny - Good suggestions, but I want to stay under $1000..... Your suggestions put me over the $2000 mark.
Grand HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,624
Likes: 189
From: Newcastle, Ca.
You are smart installing cams since it will be apart. 21's work great in a 88". With a good exhaust and the right PC map, you will like it! Lots of people also like 26's in a 88".
b-148's for sure! Adj's make the job easier, less labor time. Since you are paying someone, go adj's. Glad I did the extra work though and left the stock ones in. No worries about adjusting correctly, loosening, rubbing...
Go for the hydro setup.
Cam chains last longer than 30k miles! More importantly, change out your lifters with the new cams.
With bolt in cams and mild build setups, imo - auto tune devices and dynos are not a good roi and worth the expense. Adding a little more fuel is 80-90% of whats really required. The other 10-20% your sop will not notice...
b-148's for sure! Adj's make the job easier, less labor time. Since you are paying someone, go adj's. Glad I did the extra work though and left the stock ones in. No worries about adjusting correctly, loosening, rubbing...
Go for the hydro setup.
Cam chains last longer than 30k miles! More importantly, change out your lifters with the new cams.
With bolt in cams and mild build setups, imo - auto tune devices and dynos are not a good roi and worth the expense. Adding a little more fuel is 80-90% of whats really required. The other 10-20% your sop will not notice...
Thread Starter
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Road Captain
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 588
Likes: 0
From: Volusia County, FL
I've noticed no one has commented on the gear drive cams.... Any particular reason to not use them? That would eliminate the tensioners completely, the chains, and free up a few HP...
I know gear drives make more noise than chain drives, but how much noise are we really talking about?
I know gear drives make more noise than chain drives, but how much noise are we really talking about?
Grand HDF Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 4,624
Likes: 189
From: Newcastle, Ca.
Chain drives were the only option til about a year ago. Still a viable option. Just have to be concerned about crank run out. And crank run out is something that is suppose to be checked every 30k miles. So, just cause its in spec now, does not mean it will be 10k miles from now... Have a friend that loves his gear drive, and his is very quiet, and lots of people here like them also.
Also, a couple more hp in the upper rpm range is not what makes these bikes move. Its tq!!
Also, a couple more hp in the upper rpm range is not what makes these bikes move. Its tq!!
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Elite HDF Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 4,722
Likes: 5
From: Biddeford, Maine
Gear drive is the only way to go...........if your runout allows it. The drag difference between gear drive and chain drive is amazing.........that is why you pick up power with gear drive.
I've had gear drive cams in my bike since 2006, and I love them. Just a faint whirling sound from the cam chest, just enough to let you know they are there.
If you are staying at 88", then the Andrews 21G are a good choice......they will give you a good bump in the low end torque.
Steve
I've had gear drive cams in my bike since 2006, and I love them. Just a faint whirling sound from the cam chest, just enough to let you know they are there.
If you are staying at 88", then the Andrews 21G are a good choice......they will give you a good bump in the low end torque.
Steve
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Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Oct 2007
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yes go gear drive if your run out will allow it. I have an 04 flhtc and low run out and I have around 50,000 on my gear drive 26's. mine are no louder than stock and most people would not know I was running gear drive. On the other hand with only 30K on an 04 you could get by easily with stock tensioners. I would keep the stock chains if you go with stock tensioners because 30K is nothing on those chains and if you are lucky they are good and polished and the second set will last even longer.
just get the right stuff
- First if you stay with the stock tensioners, you will NOT need new chains.
- Second if you want to go the andrews route with the hydraulic tensioners, you are forever stuck with andrews. Nothing else is compatible. Its OK, but like what you get.
- Gear drives requires higher tollerances, and well, if you dont have them, you should stay with the stock motor. OR - fix it. The problem with a pressed crank is that it will move.
- and remember its a package, do just a big cam, just a good head, just a big bore - is worthless unless its part of a proven package.
- and get a good tuner - read alot here and else where.
...gene
- Second if you want to go the andrews route with the hydraulic tensioners, you are forever stuck with andrews. Nothing else is compatible. Its OK, but like what you get.
- Gear drives requires higher tollerances, and well, if you dont have them, you should stay with the stock motor. OR - fix it. The problem with a pressed crank is that it will move.
- and remember its a package, do just a big cam, just a good head, just a big bore - is worthless unless its part of a proven package.
- and get a good tuner - read alot here and else where.
...gene