Torque/hp Gains? this is my plan
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Cruiser
Joined: Aug 2008
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Torque/hp Gains? this is my plan
First off, I am interested in roll on power from 1,800 rpm on, to 4500 or so. This is a two up touring bike, 2008 roadking. I have purchased SE 255 cams, and would like to go with a 103 size by overbore and new pistons.
The bike currently has the ComanderIII , Jackpot mufflers and aircleaner from Fuelmoto, which has provided a very nice increase.
What should I expect from the cams and cubes, along with some mild headwork to help out the stock heads? I don't plan on spending a lot on the heads, as I want the power down low and figure that some basic bowl porting and a better valvejob should do the trick. I will however take the time to set the quench properly by using the right gasket thickness or milling the cylinders to make it all work well together. Any info appreciated. Greg
The bike currently has the ComanderIII , Jackpot mufflers and aircleaner from Fuelmoto, which has provided a very nice increase.
What should I expect from the cams and cubes, along with some mild headwork to help out the stock heads? I don't plan on spending a lot on the heads, as I want the power down low and figure that some basic bowl porting and a better valvejob should do the trick. I will however take the time to set the quench properly by using the right gasket thickness or milling the cylinders to make it all work well together. Any info appreciated. Greg
Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
Likes: 50
From: Baton Rouge, LA
You might want to install the cam first and try it with the TC96 and Fuel Moto gear, as adding the cams to what you already have will give you a nice bump in the low-end and midrange, and based on my bike's result I think that combo is a good match-up. I have the 255's, PCV-AT, AC, and Jackpots with 1.75" right baffle--basically the same setup as you. Be prepared for an exhaust-noise increase, as was expected, and this prompted me to install a smaller right-side baffle to quieten it up a bit. It's still pretty throaty but is close enough, and I didn't notice any performance decrease with the smaller baffle. In theory it should increase the low-end and possibly clip the top-end a hair.
Jamie at Fuel Moto has dynoed numerous 103's and claims there isn't a big difference between 103 and 96 all other factors being equal, maybe a few HP. Since it is a bore increase I wouldn't expect low-end TQ to increase much either. Give Jamie a call and I'm sure he'll have some numbers to share.
Jamie at Fuel Moto has dynoed numerous 103's and claims there isn't a big difference between 103 and 96 all other factors being equal, maybe a few HP. Since it is a bore increase I wouldn't expect low-end TQ to increase much either. Give Jamie a call and I'm sure he'll have some numbers to share.
Ultimate HDF Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,413
Likes: 17
From: eastern oklahoma
mnpg that tw 21 cam is supposed to be great for low end torque and starts dropping off at five thousand, so i understand. mine rarely sees five k, as it's designed to be a torque motor. i'm gonna use the tw 21, 26, or the se 255 cams myself. don't need the hi rev help, as i don't ride it there. heck, if i wanted revs, i'd have got a gsxr suzuki, yeow, slap me please and bring me back to my senses.
Elite HDF Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 4,749
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From: sand mountain Alabama
I agree with iclick.
He did his with the SE 255 cams and it did good, he has been around for some time and is a helpful member here.
By his suggestion that is what I did, cams first. Although our set ups differ I am very happy with mine. I did the cams at 30,000 miles, my body does not cooperate enough to do the cams myself. Since my cam chains had to be checked it ended up costing me $50 for the cam install.
Pulls 6th gear good now with good mpg.
He did his with the SE 255 cams and it did good, he has been around for some time and is a helpful member here.
By his suggestion that is what I did, cams first. Although our set ups differ I am very happy with mine. I did the cams at 30,000 miles, my body does not cooperate enough to do the cams myself. Since my cam chains had to be checked it ended up costing me $50 for the cam install.
Pulls 6th gear good now with good mpg.
Cruiser
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 177
Likes: 4
From: Conroe, TX
You might want to install the cam first and try it with the TC96 and Fuel Moto gear, as adding the cams to what you already have will give you a nice bump in the low-end and midrange, and based on my bike's result I think that combo is a good match-up. I have the 255's, PCV-AT, AC, and Jackpots with 1.75" right baffle--basically the same setup as you. Be prepared for an exhaust-noise increase, as was expected, and this prompted me to install a smaller right-side baffle to quieten it up a bit. It's still pretty throaty but is close enough, and I didn't notice any performance decrease with the smaller baffle. In theory it should increase the low-end and possibly clip the top-end a hair.
Jamie at Fuel Moto has dynoed numerous 103's and claims there isn't a big difference between 103 and 96 all other factors being equal, maybe a few HP. Since it is a bore increase I wouldn't expect low-end TQ to increase much either. Give Jamie a call and I'm sure he'll have some numbers to share.
Jamie at Fuel Moto has dynoed numerous 103's and claims there isn't a big difference between 103 and 96 all other factors being equal, maybe a few HP. Since it is a bore increase I wouldn't expect low-end TQ to increase much either. Give Jamie a call and I'm sure he'll have some numbers to share.
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Cruiser
Joined: Aug 2008
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Great info
Thanks for the feedback, and would like to hear results from as many as possible. It is good to hear it may not be worth the trouble to go 103, maybe the head work will be plenty. Improving headflow may not give a large improvement down low, but would probably stretch the rpm range on the top side and gain power up there without sacrificing low speed performance.
If I can run a tighter head to piston distance, that should help a lot as well. Just for grins, here are the cam specs for the stocker 08 RK 96 TC motor, and the SE255
stock intake 195 * exhaust 222 *
se255 intake 211* exhaust 235*
Events for both cams;
stock int -9*btdc 25*abdc ex 42* bbdc -3* atdc
se255 int 6*btdc 25*abdc ex 48* bbdc 7* atdc
Notice that the SE cam has exactly the same intake closing point as the stocker. That is a good thing for me, as I want the same rev range, just more of it. Extra power is gained by the .550 lift vs .480? stock, and increasing valve overlap (exhaust closing, intake opening) by 13*. Overall duration is more performance driven than emissions driven, from my perspective.
If I can run a tighter head to piston distance, that should help a lot as well. Just for grins, here are the cam specs for the stocker 08 RK 96 TC motor, and the SE255
stock intake 195 * exhaust 222 *
se255 intake 211* exhaust 235*
Events for both cams;
stock int -9*btdc 25*abdc ex 42* bbdc -3* atdc
se255 int 6*btdc 25*abdc ex 48* bbdc 7* atdc
Notice that the SE cam has exactly the same intake closing point as the stocker. That is a good thing for me, as I want the same rev range, just more of it. Extra power is gained by the .550 lift vs .480? stock, and increasing valve overlap (exhaust closing, intake opening) by 13*. Overall duration is more performance driven than emissions driven, from my perspective.
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Extreme HDF Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 11,615
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From: Baton Rouge, LA
I've been asked this several times since doing the cam install and can only give you a guess based on where I know the bike to have been before and my buttometer. That known info would be dyno charts on a stock TC96 with the same Fuel Moto mods, which was 78HP and 94TQ. Right now I'd guess HP is somewhere in the low-80's, perhaps 82-ish, and TQ at or very near 100.
I was thinking today while riding that I almost never need more than 1/2 throttle to do anything, even passing, and revving past 4K is unnecessary with this much power on tap. Don't get me wrong, the 255's are not the choice of drag racers since they don't make prodigious HP numbers, but I can't imagine a bolt-in cam that will produce this much usable low-end TQ without doing any engine mods.
I haven't done a dyno run on the bike mainly because I don't need the info, but I do know that my expectations were at least met with this upgrade. Since some negative side-effects that were expected didn't happen, e.g. increased valve-train noise, it makes the result even more pleasing.
I was thinking today while riding that I almost never need more than 1/2 throttle to do anything, even passing, and revving past 4K is unnecessary with this much power on tap. Don't get me wrong, the 255's are not the choice of drag racers since they don't make prodigious HP numbers, but I can't imagine a bolt-in cam that will produce this much usable low-end TQ without doing any engine mods.
I haven't done a dyno run on the bike mainly because I don't need the info, but I do know that my expectations were at least met with this upgrade. Since some negative side-effects that were expected didn't happen, e.g. increased valve-train noise, it makes the result even more pleasing.
Tourer
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 341
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From: Wisconsin
I went to 103 and had head work done, port polish and bigger valves, adj pushrods and andrews 54h cam, comp close to 9.5-9.8, no decomps needed and no pinging issues. I already had SERT and SE AC, use stock headers into "old School" se slip ons. At this point dont have it "dyno'd" yet but riding 2 up I can really tell it has some giddy up over the 96. Riding solo I now am constanly catching myself going near 70-75 with no effort on the throttle at all. Bike starts and runs great, to me well worth having it done.
When i finally get on a dyno I'll report back. Jamie at Fuel Moto's new shop is minutes from me so thats who will be doing any dyno tune...YES he does tune SERT too.
mps
When i finally get on a dyno I'll report back. Jamie at Fuel Moto's new shop is minutes from me so thats who will be doing any dyno tune...YES he does tune SERT too.
mps