TTS Mastertune Information
Cruiser
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 117
Likes: 3
From: Milwaukie Oregon
rahall
"I plan on making a couple of data runs for the purpose of checking the timing. My theory is that I will check areas where there are excessive anti-knock adjustments being made. I was planning on reducing the timing table in those areas. Does this make since?"
How are you finding your knock? By ear or by the log files. I found by using a o2 data log the knock was quite evident by watching the retard fast traces for the front and rear cylinders. I tried to increase my fuel to improve the problem with no great success. I ended up with my 4.89 gm/sec maxed out at 20 ms and 100% duty cycle and still knocking. I started reducing timing in the problem spots and seemed to make it worse. This is why I have the heads off again to remove any sharp edges that could be hot spots.
"I plan on making a couple of data runs for the purpose of checking the timing. My theory is that I will check areas where there are excessive anti-knock adjustments being made. I was planning on reducing the timing table in those areas. Does this make since?"
How are you finding your knock? By ear or by the log files. I found by using a o2 data log the knock was quite evident by watching the retard fast traces for the front and rear cylinders. I tried to increase my fuel to improve the problem with no great success. I ended up with my 4.89 gm/sec maxed out at 20 ms and 100% duty cycle and still knocking. I started reducing timing in the problem spots and seemed to make it worse. This is why I have the heads off again to remove any sharp edges that could be hot spots.
Advanced
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
From:
Yes, the Vtune process needs the ECM to stay in closed loop to complete.
That said, you can choose with the closed loop bias tables the "real" AFR value that the ECM will consider as 14.6:1
I might be wrong but when you set the CLB value to 750mV for ex, the ECM will go in closed loop for this voltage, thinking it's 14.6:1 and try to stay at it...
the ECM doesn't really know the AFR, all it knows is the value in mV that the sensors send to it... and we choose for it which voltage means 14.6:1
That said, you can choose with the closed loop bias tables the "real" AFR value that the ECM will consider as 14.6:1
I might be wrong but when you set the CLB value to 750mV for ex, the ECM will go in closed loop for this voltage, thinking it's 14.6:1 and try to stay at it...
the ECM doesn't really know the AFR, all it knows is the value in mV that the sensors send to it... and we choose for it which voltage means 14.6:1
Advanced
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
From:
but for me, decrease the spark advance in the area the knocking was detected, seems to have cure it
of course, my cams are OEM and your's aren't, that could be a reason
Cruiser
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 117
Likes: 3
From: Milwaukie Oregon
Are you using the data master log viewing tool or another program to view the log files?
Thread Starter
|
Tourer
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 474
Likes: 2
From:
I have not tried to do anything with the timing yet, but I plan on looking at the data.
I am not having ANY knocking or pinging problems after the TTS vtune.
But, I don't want to rely solely on the anti-knock system.
I would like to retard the timing where I see significant anti-knock system activity in the data.
As for the forum and TTS.
I don't believe that HDFourms has ANY problem with the exchange of technical information on TTS.
There are rules for selling things on HDF and some folks were not following them.
I am not having ANY knocking or pinging problems after the TTS vtune.
But, I don't want to rely solely on the anti-knock system.
I would like to retard the timing where I see significant anti-knock system activity in the data.
As for the forum and TTS.
I don't believe that HDFourms has ANY problem with the exchange of technical information on TTS.
There are rules for selling things on HDF and some folks were not following them.
Club Member
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 753
Likes: 0
From: Yakima, WA
I'm still in the 'TTST 100' class so to speak. I have done a couple of short V-tune runs, and the bike runs very well with one exception: popping on decel.
I found this in the manual:
"The VE table will affect the mixture during the entire decel event. To eliminate the popping, increase the VE setting in the first column (1 percent throttle) between 1750 and 3500 RPM by 5 to 10 percent. Some experimentation here will find the sweet spot that eliminates the popping."
I did one 5% with no effect, then another 5%... But it has been snowing and temperatures in the single digits since so I have not had a chance to try out the second adjustment.
Can't wait to take it for another run to see how it works. If it doesn't, I'll be back here asking questions.
I do have a question about AFR. I set the Closed Loop Bias Tables to 778 in order to get an AFR of 14.45. I'd like to go a little richer... like 14.2 eventually, so the CLBT would be set to 803 according to the O2 calculator. Am I missing something here? Streetdjack says in a recent post that 796=14.2:1. In Doc's V-Tune outline I got from someone, it says 680=14.5:1. But when I calculate it 680=14.63:1!
Is this difference due to bike/map differences?
Steve
I found this in the manual:
"The VE table will affect the mixture during the entire decel event. To eliminate the popping, increase the VE setting in the first column (1 percent throttle) between 1750 and 3500 RPM by 5 to 10 percent. Some experimentation here will find the sweet spot that eliminates the popping."
I did one 5% with no effect, then another 5%... But it has been snowing and temperatures in the single digits since so I have not had a chance to try out the second adjustment.
Can't wait to take it for another run to see how it works. If it doesn't, I'll be back here asking questions.
I do have a question about AFR. I set the Closed Loop Bias Tables to 778 in order to get an AFR of 14.45. I'd like to go a little richer... like 14.2 eventually, so the CLBT would be set to 803 according to the O2 calculator. Am I missing something here? Streetdjack says in a recent post that 796=14.2:1. In Doc's V-Tune outline I got from someone, it says 680=14.5:1. But when I calculate it 680=14.63:1!
Is this difference due to bike/map differences?
Steve
Advanced
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
From:
to Rahall : I'm exactly like you, no knocking problem but I hate to see anti-knock system activity in the data....
so I made some mods in the spark advance tables and it seems to cure it...
to Yso : I also had some popping on decell and had to increase the VE 10 units front and rear between 1500 and 4000 rpm in the 0 and 2 % colums to cure it... now it's nearly totaly gone (nearly ...)
The manual states not to go in CLB value more than 798mV (about 14.2 AFR) in the Tuning comments and information... that's where I'll stop
I don't think it's a problem of difference between maps, just too little difference between 803 and 798 mV ....
Doc was a little out when estimating 680mV to 14.5:1...
HD Forum Stories
The Best of Harley-Davidson for Lifelong Riders
Harley-Davidson Fat Boy Becomes a Dark, Decepticon-Inspired Custom
Verdad Gallardo
6 Weirdest Harley-Davidsons Ever Sold to the Public
Verdad Gallardo
7 Times Harley-Davidson Chucked Tradition Out the Window
Verdad Gallardo
7 Surprising Harley-Davidson Products that Are Not Motorcycles
Verdad Gallardo
8 Best Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
10 Worst Harley-Davidson Motorcycles Ever
Pouria Savadkouei
Killer Custom's Jail Break Is The Breakout That Refused to Blend In
Verdad Gallardo
Crazy Bunderbike Build Looks Amazing, But Is It Impossible to Ride?
Verdad Gallardo
Harley-Davidson Reveals Super Cool Cafe Racer Concept
Verdad Gallardo
Cruiser
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 117
Likes: 3
From: Milwaukie Oregon
I have been using the megalogviewer for a year or so. I started with it when I was using the DTT ecm and trying to understand cause and effect. It will allow you to look at 12 lines of data of your choice and zoom in on specific points It can be used to look at tts data also. You can see the knock on the green trace on bottom of the graph. You also can see many of the other paramiters that I was looking at the time the knock was occurring. Keep in mind I was not able to hear this but the ion sense was picking it up.
Last edited by cts1950; Dec 24, 2008 at 05:30 PM.
HD EFI Guru
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,499
Likes: 4,794
One thing users need to know is the HD system first then understanding knock will be much easier. The system is not there to tune the spark yet to stop the engine from knocking. What this means is it will do what it can too stop knock as quick as it can event if that means more spark is removed than necessary. Remember this is a safety device, so safety first then performance. The system reports what it see's, so you need to remember this is after it has already happened. So when you look for knock retard on a datamaster recording locate the first spot it happens and understand that it really happened just before that. This means you will need to look back a few frames of data to see where the engine was operating at to find the spot to apply a correction.
