My "MOCO trained" Dyno tune results.
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,177
Likes: 23
RE: My "MOCO trained" Dyno tune results.
ORIGINAL: Aggie
.....I would set the AFR in the main tableand the PE table to the same value...let's say 13.2 This will keep the AFR desired from changing. Then when I was done with the VE's, I would setthe main AFR and initial PEto 12.8 and calibrate PEto slowly enrichen the engine with time down to about 10.5.
This gives good power during most operating conditions and a safety net.
Maybe TTS will give us this capability.
.....I would set the AFR in the main tableand the PE table to the same value...let's say 13.2 This will keep the AFR desired from changing. Then when I was done with the VE's, I would setthe main AFR and initial PEto 12.8 and calibrate PEto slowly enrichen the engine with time down to about 10.5.
This gives good power during most operating conditions and a safety net.
Maybe TTS will give us this capability.
AW
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,304
Likes: 31
From: Florida
RE: My "MOCO trained" Dyno tune results.
ORIGINAL: cwalms
I just had my bike tuned a few weeks ago. Last year the dealer installed a stock map from my SERT but didn't make any adjustments. After talking with several people and reading a few threads here at the forum I realized my bike wasn't running quite right. Here is the results from my dyno showing the stock SERT download compared to the Dyno-tune. So far I am pretty happy with the results. 80.2 HP and 92 ft/lbs after tune. If anyone would care to comment on the results that would be great. I
[IMG]local://upfiles/26820/8B91FAA5102740A98C10ACB5E3917589.jpg[/IMG]
I just had my bike tuned a few weeks ago. Last year the dealer installed a stock map from my SERT but didn't make any adjustments. After talking with several people and reading a few threads here at the forum I realized my bike wasn't running quite right. Here is the results from my dyno showing the stock SERT download compared to the Dyno-tune. So far I am pretty happy with the results. 80.2 HP and 92 ft/lbs after tune. If anyone would care to comment on the results that would be great. I
[IMG]local://upfiles/26820/8B91FAA5102740A98C10ACB5E3917589.jpg[/IMG]
Sorry but we get the same questionfrom everyone and there isn't enough information to really check out the guys work.
Cruiser
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 220
Likes: 0
From: Wisconsin
RE: My "MOCO trained" Dyno tune results.
ORIGINAL: Doc 1
Looking at a 100% throttle pull and seeing improvements is a nice thing BUT it's only 1/15th of the makingof a tune up, I wish these so called tuners would give you all the information like the map would be nice and if they want to give you a graph ask them for the working graphs from idle to 100% throttle and each one in between....then and only then we could have something to comment on .The graph he gave you doesn't even have a fuel line on it, but at least he made 29 runs, hopefully they weren't all at 100%
Sorry but we get the same questionfrom everyone and there isn't enough information to really check out the guys work.
Looking at a 100% throttle pull and seeing improvements is a nice thing BUT it's only 1/15th of the makingof a tune up, I wish these so called tuners would give you all the information like the map would be nice and if they want to give you a graph ask them for the working graphs from idle to 100% throttle and each one in between....then and only then we could have something to comment on .The graph he gave you doesn't even have a fuel line on it, but at least he made 29 runs, hopefully they weren't all at 100%
Sorry but we get the same questionfrom everyone and there isn't enough information to really check out the guys work.
I have the file with all the runs and the .mt6 file as well. The dealership gave them to me when they were finished. Would it be alright to send them to your email and have you look them over? If I knew how to attach them to the post I would do that, but I'm not that computer astute. Thanks for the feedback.
Intermediate
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 29
Likes: 4
From: AZ
RE: My "MOCO trained" Dyno tune results.
ORIGINAL: whittlebeast
Great thought but PE is a hidden table that can't be set to 13.2 for tuning. The other thing is that it appears to only look at the PE table and I assume that the target AFR table is ignored at some point when thePE table takes over. I don't remember reading aboutany of this in the manual. The other thng is, there appears to be three different logics used in the Harley supplied tunes. ConstentAFR in the PE table, falling AFR with time and random AFR with time. All of this is out of site and undocumented. When you ask for info, the standard answer is "my customers are too stupid to understand so I am not going to go into the details".
AW
Great thought but PE is a hidden table that can't be set to 13.2 for tuning. The other thing is that it appears to only look at the PE table and I assume that the target AFR table is ignored at some point when thePE table takes over. I don't remember reading aboutany of this in the manual. The other thng is, there appears to be three different logics used in the Harley supplied tunes. ConstentAFR in the PE table, falling AFR with time and random AFR with time. All of this is out of site and undocumented. When you ask for info, the standard answer is "my customers are too stupid to understand so I am not going to go into the details".
AW
As for being calibrated 3 different ways...I would be suprised if any 2 calibrators do things the exact same way. You should see the different ways things are calibrated in many of the other HIDDEN tables.
As for a possible explanation of the 3 methods. A constant AFR in the PE table means it really isn't being used, falling with time is the most common one, and the one in 176AE looks like it is designed to maximize the power for a given dyno test. Start out at 12.5, goes to 10 to keep the engine cool, goes to 12.5 again for max power during the sample period, and then starts enrichening for safety.
If you have found the hidden PE table, you should be able to find the parameters that enable and disable it....TPS and RPM set points.
Let me say that the 100's of hidden tables would confuse 99.9% of the people using the Tuner. Including most of the dealers that have no idea what is going on in the hidden tables. MOCO doesn't train them in the hidden tables. Knock alone has twice the number of tables/constants that are currently displayed in the Tuner. Even the list TTS has pubished for the new Tuner is a very small portion of those. But to do a average field tune, they are more than what is required. None of the available software packages in the aftermarket Tuning field (cars or bikes) offer more than a small percentage of the total calibration parameters.
Road Master
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,177
Likes: 23
RE: My "MOCO trained" Dyno tune results.
Megasquirt gets access to ALL tables. They even give full access to the documented code and the compilers.
Here is an example. http://www.bgsoflex.com/v2.98/megasquirt.asm
AW
Here is an example. http://www.bgsoflex.com/v2.98/megasquirt.asm
AW
Thread Starter
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Cruiser
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
From: Indiana
RE: My "MOCO trained" Dyno tune results.
ORIGINAL: cwalms
Doc1
I have the file with all the runs and the .mt6 file as well. The dealership gave them to me when they were finished. Would it be alright to send them to your email and have you look them over? If I knew how to attach them to the post I would do that, but I'm not that computer astute. Thanks for the feedback.
ORIGINAL: Doc 1
Looking at a 100% throttle pull and seeing improvements is a nice thing BUT it's only 1/15th of the makingof a tune up, I wish these so called tuners would give you all the information like the map would be nice and if they want to give you a graph ask them for the working graphs from idle to 100% throttle and each one in between....then and only then we could have something to comment on .The graph he gave you doesn't even have a fuel line on it, but at least he made 29 runs, hopefully they weren't all at 100%
Sorry but we get the same questionfrom everyone and there isn't enough information to really check out the guys work.
Looking at a 100% throttle pull and seeing improvements is a nice thing BUT it's only 1/15th of the makingof a tune up, I wish these so called tuners would give you all the information like the map would be nice and if they want to give you a graph ask them for the working graphs from idle to 100% throttle and each one in between....then and only then we could have something to comment on .The graph he gave you doesn't even have a fuel line on it, but at least he made 29 runs, hopefully they weren't all at 100%
Sorry but we get the same questionfrom everyone and there isn't enough information to really check out the guys work.
I have the file with all the runs and the .mt6 file as well. The dealership gave them to me when they were finished. Would it be alright to send them to your email and have you look them over? If I knew how to attach them to the post I would do that, but I'm not that computer astute. Thanks for the feedback.
I didn't buy a Harley to go fast but it looks like your tuner found much more than mine did. I'd like to see how the map tables compare full range to mine.
Al.
Cruiser
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 220
Likes: 0
From: Wisconsin
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Cruiser
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 220
Likes: 0
From: Wisconsin
RE: My "MOCO trained" Dyno tune results.
Al - I sent the file. I am also going to send a copy of the dyno run that I got from the dealer today. It shows the AFR values for each cylinder. Thanks to Doc for pointing out the missing data.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,304
Likes: 31
From: Florida
RE: My "MOCO trained" Dyno tune results.
ORIGINAL: Al_07WG
cwalms, I would be most interested in seeing your .mt6 file as well. As you can see I have a 2007 96" stage 1 much like yours and it would seem that my "tuner" missed the mark by a bunch. I'd really like to compare my map tables to what you got. If your willing to let me have a look please send the .mt6 file to al1995@tds.net.
I didn't buy a Harley to go fast but it looks like your tuner found much more than mine did. I'd like to see how the map tables compare full range to mine.
Al.
ORIGINAL: cwalms
Doc1
I have the file with all the runs and the .mt6 file as well. The dealership gave them to me when they were finished. Would it be alright to send them to your email and have you look them over? If I knew how to attach them to the post I would do that, but I'm not that computer astute. Thanks for the feedback.
ORIGINAL: Doc 1
Looking at a 100% throttle pull and seeing improvements is a nice thing BUT it's only 1/15th of the makingof a tune up, I wish these so called tuners would give you all the information like the map would be nice and if they want to give you a graph ask them for the working graphs from idle to 100% throttle and each one in between....then and only then we could have something to comment on .The graph he gave you doesn't even have a fuel line on it, but at least he made 29 runs, hopefully they weren't all at 100%
Sorry but we get the same questionfrom everyone and there isn't enough information to really check out the guys work.
Looking at a 100% throttle pull and seeing improvements is a nice thing BUT it's only 1/15th of the makingof a tune up, I wish these so called tuners would give you all the information like the map would be nice and if they want to give you a graph ask them for the working graphs from idle to 100% throttle and each one in between....then and only then we could have something to comment on .The graph he gave you doesn't even have a fuel line on it, but at least he made 29 runs, hopefully they weren't all at 100%
Sorry but we get the same questionfrom everyone and there isn't enough information to really check out the guys work.
I have the file with all the runs and the .mt6 file as well. The dealership gave them to me when they were finished. Would it be alright to send them to your email and have you look them over? If I knew how to attach them to the post I would do that, but I'm not that computer astute. Thanks for the feedback.
I didn't buy a Harley to go fast but it looks like your tuner found much more than mine did. I'd like to see how the map tables compare full range to mine.
Al.
I see your concerned about the power differences between your tune and Chris's tune....please note that your tune came from a Dyno Jet and Chris's was done on a Super Flow Dyno. There is going to be a difference between the two software programs, it's been my experience that the Super Flow reads about 4% higher than the Dyno Jet numbers.The operator of the dyno is a factor too, what was his weight, how where the runs made, what was the tire pressure, etc.
Doc