Reason MOCO went to TBW? Opinions?
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 3,077
Likes: 26
RE: Reason MOCO went to TBW? Opinions?
I think:
1. to improve fuel economy/emissions by eliminating throttle twitches (as stated above) anybody does not believe that can be a factor, go ride a Honda VTX1800 over a bumpy road. Computer could theoretically be taught to anaylize your riding habbits (throttle input/engine load/speed/gear selected, in order to be more efficient.
2. to eliminate maintenance.
3. Makes cruise control cheaper/easier to add-just plug the module in.
4. they can limit bikes to a certain top speed for safety reasons (FLH front end tank slappers at triple digit speeds?)
5. Cheaper/easier to assemble
6. Hopefully one less thing to break in the middle of knowhere and leave you stranded (cables) HOPEFULLY
7. Once its adopted on all bikes, fewer different length throttle cables need to be kept in stock at dealerships, lowering parts inventory. (it costs a lot of money having unused parts made and sitting in inventory, in CASE you need them) They can just have one length of wires, and bundle them up/wire tie the excess inside the bars.
8. Cleaner look on handlebars.
1. to improve fuel economy/emissions by eliminating throttle twitches (as stated above) anybody does not believe that can be a factor, go ride a Honda VTX1800 over a bumpy road. Computer could theoretically be taught to anaylize your riding habbits (throttle input/engine load/speed/gear selected, in order to be more efficient.
2. to eliminate maintenance.
3. Makes cruise control cheaper/easier to add-just plug the module in.
4. they can limit bikes to a certain top speed for safety reasons (FLH front end tank slappers at triple digit speeds?)
5. Cheaper/easier to assemble
6. Hopefully one less thing to break in the middle of knowhere and leave you stranded (cables) HOPEFULLY
7. Once its adopted on all bikes, fewer different length throttle cables need to be kept in stock at dealerships, lowering parts inventory. (it costs a lot of money having unused parts made and sitting in inventory, in CASE you need them) They can just have one length of wires, and bundle them up/wire tie the excess inside the bars.
8. Cleaner look on handlebars.
Road Captain
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 681
Likes: 4
From: N.E. Oklahoma
RE: Reason MOCO went to TBW? Opinions?
As a Engineer, I look at it like this:
1. Eliminates extra module for Cruise Control (all internal to the ECM now, savesproduction cost)
2. Eliminates throttle cables and ties (again, saves production cost)
3. Eliminates extra content on the throttle body (cost savings)
4. Gives more precise control of throttle response (an improvement)
5. Fewer parts, easier to repair (content cost)
I'm not sure about emissions being the driver for this change, I think it was financial. It probably saves MoCo 3-4 hundred per bike to assemble.
1. Eliminates extra module for Cruise Control (all internal to the ECM now, savesproduction cost)
2. Eliminates throttle cables and ties (again, saves production cost)
3. Eliminates extra content on the throttle body (cost savings)
4. Gives more precise control of throttle response (an improvement)
5. Fewer parts, easier to repair (content cost)
I'm not sure about emissions being the driver for this change, I think it was financial. It probably saves MoCo 3-4 hundred per bike to assemble.
RE: Reason MOCO went to TBW? Opinions?
ORIGINAL: Mississippi Bagger
This is the main reason I do not like the TBW. I am all for advancements/improvements, BUT NOT ones that put a layer of separation between me and my bike.
I LIKE being able to turn off the fuel, I like having a reserve, I LIKE having a choke, while I would not mind having an auto tensioner for the primary...I LIKE having an inspection plate to be able to check the primary.
ORIGINAL: YodaddyKeith
TBW places the computer in full control of throttle......the twist grip is used for you to input your desires...the ecm then responds as per it's programed curves.
You can dial up wide open throttle, but bike will respond only as ecm allows.....ecm uses muli inputs to determine how fast bike acells/decells and will not allow bike to polute like with cables.
TBW places the computer in full control of throttle......the twist grip is used for you to input your desires...the ecm then responds as per it's programed curves.
You can dial up wide open throttle, but bike will respond only as ecm allows.....ecm uses muli inputs to determine how fast bike acells/decells and will not allow bike to polute like with cables.
I LIKE being able to turn off the fuel, I like having a reserve, I LIKE having a choke, while I would not mind having an auto tensioner for the primary...I LIKE having an inspection plate to be able to check the primary.
You wouldn't godrop 20 grand ona new Chevy truck with manual choke, no power steering or brakes and no a/c.
To me, it's about the ride. A choke or fuel valve or throttle cable has nothing to do with enjoying the open road. That's like not riding because you don't have the right do-rag to wear.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,598
Likes: 19
From: Naples FL / Pine TWP PA
RE: Reason MOCO went to TBW? Opinions?
ORIGINAL: uweldit
As a Engineer, I look at it like this:
1. Eliminates extra module for Cruise Control (all internal to the ECM now, savesproduction cost)
2. Eliminates throttle cables and ties (again, saves production cost)
3. Eliminates extra content on the throttle body (cost savings)
4. Gives more precise control of throttle response (an improvement)
5. Fewer parts, easier to repair (content cost)
I'm not sure about emissions being the driver for this change, I think it was financial. It probably saves MoCo 3-4 hundred per bike to assemble.
As a Engineer, I look at it like this:
1. Eliminates extra module for Cruise Control (all internal to the ECM now, savesproduction cost)
2. Eliminates throttle cables and ties (again, saves production cost)
3. Eliminates extra content on the throttle body (cost savings)
4. Gives more precise control of throttle response (an improvement)
5. Fewer parts, easier to repair (content cost)
I'm not sure about emissions being the driver for this change, I think it was financial. It probably saves MoCo 3-4 hundred per bike to assemble.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 3,116
Likes: 0
From: Glendale, AZ.
RE: Reason MO CO went to BTW? Opinions?
ORIGINAL: FX4
1. Dinosaur
2. Read the posts in this thread - I know its hard but you just may learn something
ORIGINAL: oldfartjc
+1 Please tell us how, I always like to read a good piece of fiction. 
ORIGINAL: russl179
OK, with the same size engine and fuel injection system, how can the TBW enhance emissions and fuel economy?
ORIGINAL: FX4
1. Emissions
2. Fuel economy
1. Emissions
2. Fuel economy
2. Read the posts in this thread - I know its hard but you just may learn something
Oh, you must mean I didn't read this first post of yours. I did read it and I don't buy a bit of it because you have no proof of your statements and just because you stated this does not make it fact like many thingsthat people post on the Internet or on this forum. I also don't need to be told that I might learn something by reading the posts in a thread since I always do. And just because someone posts their ideas about something doesn't make it fact. I also think the primary reason for the change was to save manufacturing costs.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,598
Likes: 19
From: Naples FL / Pine TWP PA
RE: Reason MO CO went to BTW? Opinions?
ORIGINAL: oldfartjc
It smooths out twitches from your hand and on the throttle. Whether you know it or not your hand is constantly moving. The TBW knows the difference between a twitching hand and an intentional change in throttle input. It is one of the reasons the 08 bikes are rated for higher fuel economy than the 07s. Same goes for emissions.
Oh, you must mean I didn't read this first post of yours. I did read it and I don't buy a bit of it because you have no proof of your statements and just because you stated this does not make it fact like many thingsthat people post on the Internet or on this forum. I also don't need to be told that I might learn something by reading the posts in a thread since I always do. And just because someone posts their ideas about something doesn't make it fact.
ORIGINAL: FX4
1. Dinosaur
2. Read the posts in this thread - I know its hard but you just may learn something
ORIGINAL: oldfartjc
+1 Please tell us how, I always like to read a good piece of fiction.
ORIGINAL: russl179
OK, with the same size engine and fuel injection system, how can the TBW enhance emissions and fuel economy?
ORIGINAL: FX4
1. Emissions
2. Fuel economy
1. Emissions
2. Fuel economy
2. Read the posts in this thread - I know its hard but you just may learn something
Oh, you must mean I didn't read this first post of yours. I did read it and I don't buy a bit of it because you have no proof of your statements and just because you stated this does not make it fact like many thingsthat people post on the Internet or on this forum. I also don't need to be told that I might learn something by reading the posts in a thread since I always do. And just because someone posts their ideas about something doesn't make it fact.
BTW I really just find you are not very bright.
Road Captain
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 602
Likes: 2
From: Lakewood, N.J.
RE: Reason MOCO went to TBW? Opinions?
ORIGINAL: Mississippi Bagger
I LIKE being able to turn off the fuel, I like having a reserve, I LIKE having a choke, while I would not mind having an auto tensioner for the primary...I LIKE having an inspection plate to be able to check the primary.
I LIKE being able to turn off the fuel, I like having a reserve, I LIKE having a choke, while I would not mind having an auto tensioner for the primary...I LIKE having an inspection plate to be able to check the primary.
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Road Captain
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 681
Likes: 4
From: N.E. Oklahoma
RE: Reason MOCO went to TBW? Opinions?
FX4,
I respectfully disagree (not in a mean way, but in the spirit of debate). Movement is movement regardless of a throttle cable, FBW or Throttle Body servomotor.
Unintentional movement is resolved via a sampling bias programmed into the ECU code (smoothing subroutine).
IMHO, FBW don't have anything to do with the emissions sub-system. Throttle is just an input device.
I respectfully disagree (not in a mean way, but in the spirit of debate). Movement is movement regardless of a throttle cable, FBW or Throttle Body servomotor.
Unintentional movement is resolved via a sampling bias programmed into the ECU code (smoothing subroutine).
IMHO, FBW don't have anything to do with the emissions sub-system. Throttle is just an input device.
Outstanding HDF Member
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,598
Likes: 19
From: Naples FL / Pine TWP PA
RE: Reason MOCO went to TBW? Opinions?
ORIGINAL: uweldit
FX4,
I respectfully disagree (not in a mean way, but in the spirit of debate). Movement is movement regardless of a throttle cable, FBW or Throttle Body servomotor.
Unintentional movement is resolved via a sampling bias programmed into the ECU code (smoothing subroutine).
IMHO, FBW don't have anything to do with the emissions sub-system. Throttle is just an input device.
FX4,
I respectfully disagree (not in a mean way, but in the spirit of debate). Movement is movement regardless of a throttle cable, FBW or Throttle Body servomotor.
Unintentional movement is resolved via a sampling bias programmed into the ECU code (smoothing subroutine).
IMHO, FBW don't have anything to do with the emissions sub-system. Throttle is just an input device.